Open Carry poll

[loudshirt]

I read a story recently about an open carry group that had a meeting at a steak house. During that meeting everything was going fine until someone showed up with an AR-15 then it went "downhill"

So the question is what should open carry laws cover?

 

[thayton]

I don't think there should be any limitations

 

[jeffsoward]

I don't think there should be any limitations

this. While I wouldn't lug my ar in any normal situation, i don't agree with any law that says, "...you can do this but not this with your firearms..."

 

[bilboben]

You forgot a 4th option, "anything you want to carry".

Having to use a forklift could be a limiting factor, but should not be against the law.

 

[DestructoJr]

I really don't think open carry should be legal and I hope it doesn't pass. I just dont see the point of advertising you are armed, and unfortuneatly I think we will see a lot more of the wanna be cops roaming around with little fake badges fighting crime.

I am a firm believer in the speak softly and carry a big stick ideology, to me walking around with a gun on your hip for no other reason than to have one just seems silly.

Let me continue by saying that I believe in minimal government intrustion and that nobody should tell people whats best for them, however I see the open carry bill having some negative knee jerk reactions that will ulitmately reduce gun carry rights.

For example gun carrying joe A walks into a gas station, Bad Guy sees the gun on Joe As hip, while Joe A is buying his 6 pack of keystone and a pack of levi garret bad guy walks up behind Joe A and disarms him by simply removing the weapon from his zero active retention holster that came with the weapon. Bad guy shoots Joe in the back before Joe even knows whats going on and then kills the clerk robs the store and flees the scene.

As I see it most crimes are crimes of opportunity and if you look at crime being a triangle (much like the fire triangle heat, fuel, oxygen) You have a (victim, suspect, and opportunity) it seems to give bad guys more opportunity to commit a violent crime with a legal firearm and give the anti-gun campaign more fuel for the fire. Frankly no pun intended the less bullets they have for their argument the better.

 

[Keyser328]

Destructo, it isn't entirely about walking around with a tac-holster and advertising what sidearm you have with you. For most people, it's about a glaring oversight in the current CCL law.

Using Joe from your example: Under current law, Joe has his CCL and is packing a full framed pistol in an IWB holster, with a casual shirt on that covers the weapon. All is legal and no one is aware that Joe is armed. Just as you mentioned, Joe is at the gas station and walking to the counter with his cup of coffee that he just poured.

Due to a fold in the rubber floor mat (or a child running by, or a box sticking out from a shelf, whatever), Joe trips, spilling his coffee and causing his cover garment to flair up. The officer at the counter hears the commotion from Joe's fall and sees that Joe has a properly stored fire arm that is now visible.

Joe ends up with a coffee stain on his pants and a citation for breaking the CCL law.



Could Joe have prevented the weapon from being seen? Absolutely, he could have had a tucked shirt, but even that isn't a guarantee against all circumstances. If the open carry law passes, the 'inadvertent' exposure of the firearm will no longer against the law, and you are still perfectly legal to carry it concealed if that's your choice.

If it were to pass, I'm sure you'd see the occasional person with a visible sidearm, but it would likely be more rare than most people expect.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

The most troubling part of this whole conversation is that we are asking the question "What should this law ALLOW us to carry?

I don't think we should have to have a law to ALLOW us to do something that we already have the right to do.

 

[Codemack1]

Well alot can be said about your scenario Destructojr but the fact is tragedy happens everyday and it would be tragic if Joe got shot with his own gun, but that is no call for Government to be involved. If you take it one step further if all law abiding customers in the store had a gun someone else would be there to take care of it. So you can look at it both ways, I just look at the way of the least amount of government intervention in our life.

Common Sense is the key you sure don't want to make people nervous an AR in a restaurant shows no common sense at all, and people with guns need to be full of common sense.

 

[owu1bag5]

I really don't think open carry should be legal and I hope it doesn't pass. I just dont see the point of advertising you are armed, and unfortuneatly I think we will see a lot more of the wanna be cops roaming around with little fake badges fighting crime.

I am a firm believer in the speak softly and carry a big stick ideology, to me walking around with a gun on your hip for no other reason than to have one just seems silly.

Let me continue by saying that I believe in minimal government intrustion and that nobody should tell people whats best for them, however I see the open carry bill having some negative knee jerk reactions that will ulitmately reduce gun carry rights.

For example gun carrying joe A walks into a gas station, Bad Guy sees the gun on Joe As hip, while Joe A is buying his 6 pack of keystone and a pack of levi garret bad guy walks up behind Joe A and disarms him by simply removing the weapon from his zero active retention holster that came with the weapon. Bad guy shoots Joe in the back before Joe even knows whats going on and then kills the clerk robs the store and flees the scene.

As I see it most crimes are crimes of opportunity and if you look at crime being a triangle (much like the fire triangle heat, fuel, oxygen) You have a (victim, suspect, and opportunity) it seems to give bad guys more opportunity to commit a violent crime with a legal firearm and give the anti-gun campaign more fuel for the fire. Frankly no pun intended the less bullets they have for their argument the better.

i have asked this many times and have never gotten a factual response, but i will ask you again.

out of all the states that allow open carry of firearms i never hear this kind of story coming out. where do you find any factual evidence that this happens? sure it could happen, but a criminal would have to be pretty damn ballsy to pull that one off. most would more than likely choose to commit a crime somewhere else or not at all. PLEASE show me where this actually happens and it is not just the opinion of someone on the internet.

you act like open carry is a new idea that someone just came up with yesterday. when in fact it has been practiced for a LONG time in a lot of other states and i have never heard a case where a criminal took a citizens sidearm off their person and used it on them.

 

[DestructoJr]

Destructo, it isn't entirely about walking around with a tac-holster and advertising what sidearm you have with you. For most people, it's about a glaring oversight in the current CCL law.

Using Joe from your example: Under current law, Joe has his CCL and is packing a full framed pistol in an IWB holster, with a casual shirt on that covers the weapon. All is legal and no one is aware that Joe is armed. Just as you mentioned, Joe is at the gas station and walking to the counter with his cup of coffee that he just poured.

Due to a fold in the rubber floor mat (or a child running by, or a box sticking out from a shelf, whatever), Joe trips, spilling his coffee and causing his cover garment to flair up. The officer at the counter hears the commotion from Joe's fall and sees that Joe has a properly stored fire arm that is now visible.

Joe ends up with a coffee stain on his pants and a citation for breaking the CCL law.



Could Joe have prevented the weapon from being seen? Absolutely, he could have had a tucked shirt, but even that isn't a guarantee against all circumstances. If the open carry law passes, the 'inadvertent' exposure of the firearm will no longer against the law, and you are still perfectly legal to carry it concealed if that's your choice.

If it were to pass, I'm sure you'd see the occasional person with a visible sidearm, but it would likely be more rare than most people expect.

I would like to find a District Attorney who would prosecute Joe for that set of circumstances. For most crimes to be crimes there has to be intent, slipping and falling and having a weapon you attempted to conceal become uncovered would not mean you werent attempting to conceal your weapon and any charge, even if a LEO arrested you (which I dont see happening) would be dismissed.

So if that is the reasoning for open carry I would fully support a clause that made accidental exposing of a firearm not a crime.