Open Carry poll

[DestructoJr]

and people with guns need to be full of common sense.

How can we regulate common sense, is there a test that one shall pass in order to be able to open carry, heck our concealed carry classes aren't enough to ensure proper firearm handling and safety, or are they enough to evaluate if someone has the common sense to use it appropriately.

All I think is that where the laws are right now sit just fine with me, and I have a hunch that if open carry passes and something bad were to happen, as a result of open carry or not, gun ownership and carrying at all would become the scapegoat

 

[Burk Cornelius]

I think most are missing the point. It isn't about whether you would or would not open carry (personally, I would not) But it is about the government ALLOWING you to carry a gun. Does that not bother anyone else?

Not only that but do most of you realize the open carry that will likely be proposed in Oklahoma will be for CCW permit holders? That's right, we will have gone from no permit 10 years ago to a permit to ALLOW you to carry a gun.

Sound a little like gun registration? Sound a little like California? Sound a little like NY? Just because we live in OK, don't think they can't sneak gun registration in on unsuspecting gun owners.

We are only a few votes away from it right now! How does this headline sound?

"GUN FRIENDLY OKLAHOMA APPROVES GUN REGISTRATION"

 

[watchcollector1968]

Destructo...you stated your opinion well and you obviously believe in it and I can respect that. However I do not agree with it.

You can put a scenario out there and toss in the "Joe buying his six-pack and cheap smokes" which of course helps the mental image of some beer swilling idiot almost helping provide the weapon for some dirtball.

The same strategy of planting a mental image and thinking of "what might happen" has been used by the anti-gunners every time a state has considered a law allowing CCW permits. Its always "there will be gunfights in the streets every time somebody feels slighted"...this will cause people to "create rivers of blood whenever somebody looks at them wrong".

You simply need to look at the facts, and not what you "think might happen".

Personally I dont think it is the governments place to tell us if we can or cannot carry, and no, I dont think permits should be required. However that is where we are at, and I abide by the law.

I dont think I would ever openly carry...you know why? Just because of what you said, I dont want to be the first target of somebody robbing a place...but thats just me and I can play "what if" with myself all I want. If others choose to carry openly, who am I, or who is the government to tell them they cannot?

I fully support an individual right to carry openly, be it a pistol on their belt or a rifle slung over their shoulder...I dont think it is a good idea to advertise, but it is about freedom and not what I think.

I never thought of one thing, but saw it mentioned above...the cocealed gun being displayed openly because of an accident like slipping and having the shirt come up...you should not be punished for something like that.

 

[1eye]

When I first read this thread I knew I had to comment on it but had to think about it for a little first. I am all for our rights as gun owners and don't have a problem with open carry to go with concealed carry. I don't like government micro managing our lives at all. Lets look at it a little differently and take the government out of it for a minute. How many grandma's want to go to the store with a bunch of people walking down the isles cradling assault rifles. I don't like making other people uncomfortable and think it is inconsiderate to do so just because I can. We need to be able to maintain our rights while protecting the peaceful existance of others. It is our responsibility to figure out how to make this work for everybody not just ourselves. The reason the government intervenes so much is because of the inconsiderate moron that couldn't care less about others feelings. You can't fix stupid so laws are made to regulate it. Lets figure out how to excercise our rights without causing others to be uncomfortable instead of letting the government do it all. Our input to the politicians of this state could create a solution that would fit us all.

 

[Souperphly]

Why not look at a place in OK where open carry happens daily H&H nearly every employee I see there has his/her weapon on them and exposed. I don't know how many robberies they've had since they've allowed this but I bet I won't need any fingers or toes to count them.

 

[DestructoJr]

i have asked this many times and have never gotten a factual response, but i will ask you again.

out of all the states that allow open carry of firearms i never hear this kind of story coming out. where do you find any factual evidence that this happens? sure it could happen, but a criminal would have to be pretty damn ballsy to pull that one off. most would more than likely choose to commit a crime somewhere else or not at all. PLEASE show me where this actually happens and it is not just the opinion of someone on the internet.

you act like open carry is a new idea that someone just came up with yesterday. when in fact it has been practiced for a LONG time in a lot of other states and i have never heard a case where a criminal took a citizens sidearm off their person and used it on them.

If I must.

Dallas Morning News Oct 29 2008

Watauga homeowner stabbed, shot with own gun during robbery

A Watauga homeowner was stabbed several times and shot once with his own gun during a robbery early this morning, police said.

The incident occurred in the 6000 block of Sundown Drive in Watauga about 10 miles northeast of Fort Worth.

According to Watauga police, a man heard someone trying to break into a trailer parked in his driveway around 3:30 a.m.

Armed with a shotgun, the man confronted the intruder who stabbed him several times. The gun went off during the scuffle, and the homeowner was shot in the arm.

A neighbor who came to the help the homeowner was also stabbed multiple times, police said.

The homeowner, who police did not identify, was taken to Harris Methodist Medical Center in critical condition. Police said the neighbor drove himself to the hospital.

Police have no suspects or a detailed description of the intruder.

Franklin star July 17 2008

Burglar takes gun from Franklin man, wounds him

A Franklin man shot in his garage by an intruder Wednesday night remained at Methodist Hospital today, but Franklin police said the man was believed likely to make a full recovery.

James Duncan, 28, encountered the intruder shortly after 10 p.m. Wednesday after he went to investigate a sound in his garage. Duncan lives in the 500 block of Hanna Place in the Canary Creek neighborhood.

After advising his wife to call 911, Duncan took a .22-caliber bolt-action rifle from his home before confronting the intruder. In an ensuing struggle, the intruder grabbed the gun from Duncan and shot him in the shoulder. The suspect then dropped the gun and fled.

“I’d just like to know who did it, and that’s what we’re working on,” said Det. Chris Tennell of the Franklin Police Department.

Police said the man was wearing a T-shirt worn by carnival workers at the Johnson County Fair, which is being held this week in Franklin. But Tennell emphasized that they do not know whether the suspect has any connection to the fair.

Duncan and his family had just returned from the fair themselves and were putting their two children to bed when Duncan heard the noise in his garage, Tennell said.

Doctors opted not to remove the bullet from Duncan’s shoulder, Tennell said, fearing they might damage muscle tissue or an artery in trying to extract it.

“Anytime you have a bullet in your body and you’re bleeding, that’s not good,” Tennell said. “But as far as gunshot victims go, they said he should recover fine.”

Kearns, Utah

From KUTV of May 8, 2008

Kearns Shooting Victim Bashes Gunman During TV Interview

A man wounded by a burglar during a home invasion Thursday morning talked to 2News about the incident - in which he was shot with his own gun.

Chad Morley said he found the burglar inside of his home at approximately 9:00 a.m. Thursday after noticing some of his property stacked up by a side door.

Morley decided to go inside the house, located near 6000 West Eaton Way, and retrieve his handgun to fend off the intruder. Moments later, the two men started wrestling for control and Morley was eventually shot in the arm.

“We both fought over the gun and he hit me in the head,” Morley said. “My hands were just completely covered in blood.” (Video)

“We both had a hold of the gun and (he) turned it toward me… and it was so slippery from blood, I couldn’t hang on to it,” he continued. “Then I saw his finger go to the trigger and… that’s when it hit me and knocked me over a loveseat.”
.....edited for length

After a brief search I found several, although not the exact scenario I had outlined, I think this demonstrates my point more clearly. In all of these scenarios we have a common element good guy gets gun taken away, then used on good guy by bad guy. In all of these situations the homeowner/shop keeper knew there was someone in their residence and went to confront them. So they were "ready" for a confrontation meaning they knew it was comming,

Lastly
***WARNING THE FOLLOWING LINK HAS 911 AUDIO FROM A POLICE OFFICER WHO WAS SHOT WITH HIS OWN GUN***

This link is to a recent incident that happened September 2009, the story is there. Its chilling.
http://www.twincities.com/north/ci_14414609?nclick_check=1

There are plenty of instances where the original gun owner gets their own gun taken away, and it even happens to Law Enforcement, while not a regular occurence it happens enough to not be a fluke or not something worth considering. I cannot testify to the training recieved by this Officer but typically wepon retention is tought in some fashion and usually brushed up on yearly with some in service training.

Put that same scenario anywhere with an untrained citizen who walks into the middle of a robbery or one meerly looking at merchandise in a store and someone sneaks up on them. Removes their wepon from whatever holster they carry and shoots them would not be too far fetched.

I don't think that open carry should be legal to protect people who can't protect themselves...ie they lack the common sense to not do such things. While I do agree I do not think it is the place of government to be all powerful and have supreme authority, I do feel it is a necessary evil. Unfortuneatly in the world of PC and Equal Opportunity a government agency or public entity cannot, discriminate against anyone simply because they lack common sense. Who would regulate who can and who cannot carry openly, what holsters should be authorised, what weapons.....I think a myraid of issues comes at hand when discussing open carry more than just "THE GUBBERNMENT CANT TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!" mentality and I would hope something with as serious implications should be considered fully and rationally.

Its Wolf, Lambs, and Sheepdogs

 

[owu1bag5]

If I must.

Dallas Morning News Oct 29 2008


Franklin star July 17 2008



Kearns, Utah

From KUTV of May 8, 2008



After a brief search I found several, although not the exact scenario I had outlined, I think this demonstrates my point more clearly. In all of these scenarios we have a common element good guy gets gun taken away, then used on good guy by bad guy. In all of these situations the homeowner/shop keeper knew there was someone in their residence and went to confront them. So they were "ready" for a confrontation meaning they knew it was comming,

Lastly
***WARNING THE FOLLOWING LINK HAS 911 AUDIO FROM A POLICE OFFICER WHO WAS SHOT WITH HIS OWN GUN***

This link is to a recent incident that happened September 2009, the story is there. Its chilling.
http://www.twincities.com/north/ci_14414609?nclick_check=1

There are plenty of instances where the original gun owner gets their own gun taken away, and it even happens to Law Enforcement, while not a regular occurence it happens enough to not be a fluke or not something worth considering. I cannot testify to the training recieved by this Officer but typically wepon retention is tought in some fashion and usually brushed up on yearly with some in service training.

Put that same scenario anywhere with an untrained citizen who walks into the middle of a robbery or one meerly looking at merchandise in a store and someone sneaks up on them. Removes their wepon from whatever holster they carry and shoots them would not be too far fetched.

I don't think that open carry should be legal to protect people who can't protect themselves...ie they lack the common sense to not do such things. While I do agree I do not think it is the place of government to be all powerful and have supreme authority, I do feel it is a necessary evil. Unfortuneatly in the world of PC and Equal Opportunity a government agency or public entity cannot, discriminate against anyone simply because they lack common sense. Who would regulate who can and who cannot carry openly, what holsters should be authorised, what weapons.....I think a myraid of issues comes at hand when discussing open carry more than just "THE GUBBERNMENT CANT TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!" mentality and I would hope something with as serious implications should be considered fully and rationally.

Its Wolf, Lambs, and Sheepdogs

so out of your posts, one came from a situation where OPEN CARRY would possibly come in to play, the one about the officer. the link you posted does not work for me so i couldnt read the article about the officer. the others, well obviously those were not from open carry situations. they were home invasions. so i again ask you to kindly find where an everyday average joe citizen has his weapon taken from him in public. and why could these same situations not happen with concealed carry? you draw your gun and get into a struggle with a bad guy and he gets your gun. what is the difference? in my opinion, and it is just that, my opinion, anyone who is for stronger gun laws is someone who does not understand what the second amendment is about.

 

[thayton]

I guess I'm like an anti, I don't care about all the BS I want my rights back

 

[benschne]

None of those example do much for me since they no way resemble the original scenario of the man in the grocery store. A suspect taking a gun from someone that is already using it to defend themselves is not equivalent to the suspect grabbing a gun from an unaware practitioner of open carry.

Oh yeah, and why the references to the law abiding citizen only buying cheap beer and cigarettes? That is personally not the image I hold of a law abiding gun owner/carrier.

 

[DestructoJr]

You are right those werent about someone getting their open carried gun taken from them when they werent expecting it. As I stated earlier I think this expands upon the original idea that these weapons were taken away from people who had them out unholstered and ready to use.

I would be willing to wager if weapons can be taken away from the average citizen when they were pointing them at the BG it would be just as easy for a BG to remove a wepon from an unconcealed holster from a citizen who isn't expecting an attack, no matter where they are or what they are doing, buying stuff from a store, walking their dog...etc. They were about people prepared for a fight getting them taken away!!! What about someone who isn't paying attention, I think that its likely it would happen.

And as far as not knowing what the second amendment is about is an interesting statement. If you have read the federalist papers written mostly by Hamilton and Madison, and considered the time and context that the constitution was written easy inferences can be made about the context of citizens having a right to keep and bear arms.

Look at history and what the colonists and founding fathers were fighting. I think that amendment was written to secure peoples ability to defend themselves against tyrant governments. I dont have the time nor the fingers to type out an entire history lesson in an argument where you aren't going to change my mind.

I feel that open carry is a big mistake and to allow it would be irresponsible on behalf of gun owners everywhere.

As far as image of law abiding gun owning citizens is concerned, is there anything illegal about buying beer and cigarettes while armed...the answer is no there isn't however there is a stigma attached to it......I ask howcome...the same reason you dont want that to be the image associated with responsible gun ownership....the fact of the matter is if its not illegal there is nothing that can be done about it.

Back to the basics, Fact 1 people get firearms taken away from them citizens and officers alike.. Fact 2 BG's use those weapons against them, I dont see why we would want to make it any easier for people to put themselves in a potentially dangerous situation or pass laws that would enable a public nuisance. Care to think of how many calls the police would get about someone walking around with an openly displayed weapon, the cops would show up, prone the guy out, probably handcuff him and the whole nine yards. All this causing a scene and a disturbance that intereferece with commerce, commute, and daily life....all in all if you evaluate the Risk Vs. Reward of Open carry the Rewards dont out weigh the Risks.