Pawn shops required to have FFL?

[skatalite]

There's a thread about "any nut can easily buy a gun" between people on Facebook and one guy who lives in Broken Arrow said just last week he bought a shotgun from a pawn shop in Stillwater and didn't have to even show his ID, much less fill out a Form 4473.

It's to my understanding that pawn shops that buy and sell guns are required to have an FFL. Am I wrong?

Edit: I asked the guy what pawn shop he bought the gun from but he refuses to give the name. So, either he's lying to try to make a point, or he's covering for an illegal activity (if pawn shops are required to have an FFL).

 

[CHenry]

I bought a pisol at a pawn shop years ago and I dont remember filling out the papaer work at all. They did not sell new guns from a manufacturer so I believe they did not have to have a FFL. Maybe I am wrong becasue this doesnt even seem right but for the life of me, I don't think I filled out the papers.

 

[BrandonM]

Copied and pasted the below information. I think the info is correct though. Other than what is in the Q/A below you have to fill out 4473 and a pawn shop selling firearms have to have 4473. The pawn stars guys in Las Vegas don't have an ffl and can only deal in the old antique stuff for that reason.

Q: What constitutes "antique" under U.S. law?

A: Although your State and local laws may vary, any firearm with a receiver actually made before Jan.
1, 1899 is legally "antique." and not considered a "firearm" under Federal law. This refers to the actual
date of manufacture of the receiver/frame, not just model year or patent date marked. (For example,
only low serial number Winchester Model 1894 lever actions are actually antique.) No FFL is required
to buy or sell antiques across state lines-- they are in the same legal category as a muzzle-loading
replica. I regularly ship them right to people's doorstep via UPS, with no "paper trail." Think of it as
the last bastion of gun ownership privacy.

 

[mugsy]

You are correct - the guy is either lying, or the Pawn Shop dealer committed a crime or, possibly, it was a private transaction between someone who works at the Pawn Shop and this person (in effect having nothing to do with the pawn shop). However, if the sale was part of the shop's normal for profit business, I am certain that BATFE would go after that as a violation of the GCA if the Pawn shop proprietor did not have an FFL and follow proper procedures.

I was also told by an FFL holder that, once he acquired his FFL, his days as a private seller were no more because BATFE made a presumption that all sales were in pursuit of the business of being a licensed dealer. Any lawyers present is that actually how BATFE views the matter?

EDIT: I forgot what TWSS just posted about - there would be an exception for muzzle loaders and antiques but in context it didn't sound like the person mentioned in the OP was discussing that possibility.

 

[03on22s]

All the pawnshops here in town that I know sell guns, I'm almost absolute have their FFL. I have buddies that have bought at all the ones I know of and they filled out paper work. I'd like to know which one it was.

 

[CHenry]

I was also told by an FFL holder that, once he acquired his FFL, his days as a private seller were no more because BATFE made a presumption that all sales were in pursuit of the business of being a licensed dealer. Any lawyers present is that actually how BATFE views the matter?

Negative, a FFL holder can still sell his "personal" firearms that are not listed in the shop or business paperwork. I know an FFL who set up at a gunshow as a private seller and only had his personal guns on the table. None of them were logged in his books.

 

[WRH1234]

Scenerio question...

Current gun owner: Hey, I got this gun I'd like to sell.
Pawn Shop Owner: Sell or Pawn?
CGO: Sell.
PSO: I'll buy it...(but he buys it with his own $$ cause he wants it)
New guy looking for gun: hey, I'm looking for a gun
PSO: points at all in the case...but adds if you don't see what you want I may still have it
NGLFG: what do you have.
PSO: well I just picked up this blah blah gun and could sell it to you for $$$
NGLFG: ok, I'll take it

so since it was the Pawn Shop Owners personal gun no paperwork involved ??

 

[Belthos]

Scenerio question...

Current gun owner: Hey, I got this gun I'd like to sell.
Pawn Shop Owner: Sell or Pawn?
CGO: Sell.
PSO: I'll buy it...(but he buys it with his own $$ cause he wants it)
New guy looking for gun: hey, I'm looking for a gun
PSO: points at all in the case...but adds if you don't see what you want I may still have it
NGLFG: what do you have.
PSO: well I just picked up this blah blah gun and could sell it to you for $$$
NGLFG: ok, I'll take it

so since it was the Pawn Shop Owners personal gun no paperwork involved ??

The owner would be playing with fire because of his willingness to turn around and immediately sell the firearm for a profit.

Is it illegal? Not on the face of it.
Is it smart? No.
If there is a provable pattern of him doing this he's putting himself in a bad legal situation.

 

[Honeybee]

A pawn shop does have to have an FFL and cannot buy a gun for himself without first logging it into his bound book and then logging it out to himself.
He must wait a full year before selling that gun unless he loggs it back into his bound book and then loggs it out with buyers 4473.
An employee cannot buy or sell guns without having been registered under the primary FFL holder.