Point don't shoot bill

[RETOKSQUID]

We have several lawyers here; I can be wrong, same as anybody else. While I appreciate your confidence, you should always get multiple opinions, then evaluate them in light of what you know to be true.

Very sound advice.

 

[sanjuro893]

Just passed the Senate, now it's headed for the governor's desk.

 

[SMS]

But IF you pulled your gun because a thug with a knife was wanting your wallet, and as you produce the gun the thug turns and runs away before any bullets fly, your still going to shoot?
I dont think you are gonna shoot a man in the back but the way the law is written this is not legal. They just want to make the language of the current law be more clear and defined so you dont feel like you must shoot if the situation changes and the threat retreats.

I already discussed that highly improbable and physically near impossible scenario in an earlier post.

Remember there is a subtle difference between imminent threat and present danger.
I'll give you a real word example:
Several years ago on the drive home from my workplace in Plano TX to my home in OK I had been called into a conference call via cell phone (Early 1990s). As I came through Denison, TX I pulled off 69/75 into a McDonalds parking lot and shut the engine off because I knew from experience that the signal would drop in another mile or so and I couldn't afford to be disconnected from the call. As it was around 0300 the lot was completely empty and not a soul in sight. Due to the nature of the call, dealing with a network outage and an upset client, I was not focused on my surroundings as I should have been. Two men "appeared" without being seen until they were in my mirror walking up either side of my truck. Given that approach I immediately went on high alert and placed my hand on the pistol I had stored between the seat and console.

The walked up to the doors and the one on the driver side said "We need a ride." I informed him I wasn't giving rides and they needed to move along. At this point I dropped the phone into my lat (Unfortunately forgot to hit the mute button and everything went out over the call.) He then told me "Hey man I said we need a ride, don't be a dick dude!". I again informed him I didn't give rides. At this point he put his hand on top of the door and drew back with his other hand either in a fist or with something in his hand to break the window as the guy on the passenger side started jerking the door handle. I placed the pistol against the glass, he stopped with his fist still cocked back and I told him, "If that effing glass breaks you are going to die!" Seeing the pistol they changed their mind and hauled butt thankfully.

After apologizing to my client I excused myself from the call long enough to notify the local PD of what had happened. They sent an officer to check on me and check the area. Nothing more ever came from it. In my opinion, there was clearly an imminent threat of great bodily harm at the very least but had I pulled the trigger and shot through the glass it would have been a bad shoot.

Just my opinion.

This case highlights my talisman point.

You were not presented with a threat of deadly force and would not, in my mind, be justified in introducing the threat of deadly force yourself, which you did by presenting a firearm.

If, by your own admission, it would've been a bad shoot then why was your gun introduced into the equation? As a talisman to make some scary guys go away? Why not just drive away?

Yes, every situation is fluid. I've been in real world shoot-don't shoot situations in the military, governed by wholly different rules and an escalation of force matrix. As civilians I think we actually have a higher standard, but it's also a simpler one: Answer a threat of deadly force with deadly force. If there is no deadly force then don't be the one to introduce it, which is exactly what one does by drawing a firearm.

If I'm threatened with deadly force, for the life of me I can't imagine drawing my gun only to wait and see what the other guy does next. Makes zero sense.

 

[CHenry]

Two guys breakin into your truck while you sit in it and they dont have a weapon visible to you isnt necessarily a deadly threat but I bet we can agree we would not like them to gain entry. So SMS, in that scenario, what would you do. No time to drive off either.

 

[SMS]

How is there no time to drive away?

 

[Dave70968]

How is there no time to drive away?

Engine was off (per the post). If the attacker had a tool in his hand that could break the glass (or if he could dislodge the window; side windows aren't always that solidly mounted, especially if there's not a continuous window frame in the door), he could easily gain entry before the poster could start the car, get it into gear, and get out of where he was parked (particularly if there were obstructions of any sort around him).

Moreover, given that they'd already shown violent intent, and not knowing that what else they might be carrying, I don't know that I'd want to turn my back on them either, lest I catch a parting shot or two as I flee. The disparity of force, coupled with their superior tactical position should the car be breached, means that the situation is potentially a deadly/grievous bodily harm scenario.

I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing as okie362, including the call to the police. And I'd have insisted they take prints anywhere I could remember the critters touching, as well as look for surveillance video from the gas station.

 

[SMS]

But the car wasn't breached.

Locked inside a 2,000 pound machine is the superior tactical position.

 

[SMS]

We've been down this road many times before. Glocktogo even mostly agreed with me once about only presenting a firearm for "the purpose of firing to stop an emminent threat" (see post #4)....but people change I guess.

Drawing with the intent to fire to stop a threat does not include a pause to see what effect your draw has. Drawing with the intent to fire does not include drawing, presenting, and issuing verbal threats.

Keep it holstered until it's time to shoot, or don't. I'm out.

https://www.okshooters.com/threads/meaning-of-drawing-shoot-dont-shoot.64003/#post-788190

 

[CHenry]

But the car wasn't breached.

Locked inside a 2,000 pound machine is the superior tactical position.

I realize your an expert, trained and all but seems the majority here disagree with you and so does the house and senate...and I'm gonna bet ol Mary will also.

 

[SMS]

Yeah, and Mary is the pinnacle of legislative common sense...