West Norman shooting yesterday; shooter was CLEET instructor

[THAT Gurl]

Well, at least we finally get to hear the court’s version of the testimony of the witnesses, if not their testimony directly. It sounds like all of the accounts that the court found credible largely agreed with each other and mostly disagreed with the defense counsel’s assertions.

There’s a lesson here for anyone who carries in Oklahoma—if you believe you’re justified in shooting, you had better damn well be right, because it’s a very thin line between justified shooting and murder one.

I gotta agree with SMS on this one. Kottka is a trained LEO -- allegedly better trained than most since he was a firearms instructor. It appears, IMHO, he let his ego get the better of him and, I suspect that because of that he is gonna get to serve some serious jail time. I personally don't know how he sleeps at night knowing he could have just driven away.

 

[Glocktogo]

I just wish we could get the same standard of conduct for current LE. If you've got time to deescalate, the attempt should be the standard.

 

[bigfug]

I'm not talking about video footage of the aftermath; that exists from the police body cams (unless they were mysteriously broken or turned off as they sometimes are). The most meaningful video would be of the altercation itself. Unless I'm mistaken, that never existed to begin with.

Funny thing about that. I have officers in and out all day long, adamant that there cameras need to be fixed and working. They'll down a car with broken or no dash cams before they'll go out on patrol without it. Trust me, if a camera is "broken", it probably really is. It's the most common point of failure in all the tech and equipment I support. Now, body cams are handled by someone else, but I see and hear the issues they have, and its the same company that makes the dash cams. Most Officers want the protection the cameras offer.

 

[dennishoddy]

Well, at least we finally get to hear the court’s version of the testimony of the witnesses, if not their testimony directly. It sounds like all of the accounts that the court found credible largely agreed with each other and mostly disagreed with the defense counsel’s assertions.

There’s a lesson here for anyone who carries in Oklahoma—if you believe you’re justified in shooting, you had better damn well be right, because it’s a very thin line between justified shooting and murder one.

I saw a similar video of another incident where the victim was at a stop light behind another vehicle.
The person in the other vehicle came out pointing a pistol in an attempted car jacking.
The car owner sitting inside produced a pistol and shot through the windshield while the perp shot back into the vehicle hitting the owner center mass in the chest.
The vehicle owner, even though hit, continued to shoot at the vehicle as it left the scene.
Owner is in critical condition last I read.
If the car jacker is found dead or wounded, a jury will have to decide if the owner hit him through the windshield, or shot him as he was retreating.
If found retreating, the carjacking victim is the guilty one.
Always remember when the threat is no longer a threat, you can't shoot anymore.

 

[SoonerP226]

I don’t think the line is that thin really…At least it isn’t in this case.

I'm just saying that if it's not clearly self defense, the way the murder statute is written, it's a short step to murder in the first degree. It's all up to prosecutorial discretion.

 

[retrieverman]

I haven’t checked in on this thread in a few days, and from the information posted here, this case definitely isn’t going in the direction I figured it would.
No matter the outcome of the verdict, there ain’t nothing going to bring the victim back, and basically, a temporary and completely avoidable traffic incident is going to have a permanent, life altering impact on two families.

 

[Glocktogo]

I saw a similar video of another incident where the victim was at a stop light behind another vehicle.
The person in the other vehicle came out pointing a pistol in an attempted car jacking.
The car owner sitting inside produced a pistol and shot through the windshield while the perp shot back into the vehicle hitting the owner center mass in the chest.
The vehicle owner, even though hit, continued to shoot at the vehicle as it left the scene.
Owner is in critical condition last I read.
If the car jacker is found dead or wounded, a jury will have to decide if the owner hit him through the windshield, or shot him as he was retreating.
If found retreating, the carjacking victim is the guilty one.
Always remember when the threat is no longer a threat, you can't shoot anymore.

FWIW, if you've been shot in the chest by a predator, you get a free pass from me to shoot till you're out of ammo, so long as you don't shoot an innocent bystander.

 

[Method]

Funny thing about that. I have officers in and out all day long, adamant that there cameras need to be fixed and working. They'll down a car with broken or no dash cams before they'll go out on patrol without it. Trust me, if a camera is "broken", it probably really is. It's the most common point of failure in all the tech and equipment I support. Now, body cams are handled by someone else, but I see and hear the issues they have, and its the same company that makes the dash cams. Most Officers want the protection the cameras offer.

Yeah, I have seen FAR too often whenever public requests are made for dash cam video that the body cams were either 'broken' or not activated. I know better than that. Sometimes, the problem appears that the cameras aren't activated, by choice. That's a big problem. Heck, you see it repeatedly online when reviewing footage, officers saying 'we're red' meaning 'don't forget that this is being recorded'. I wonder why that reminder would be necessary? Hmmm.....

The data I have seen is that police, in general, are not in favor of body cameras. An example: https://stateline.org/2020/01/14/body-cameras-may-not-be-the-easy-answer-everyone-was-looking-for/

 

[Method]

Based on the document, I wonder how things would be now if Kottka had just admitted to being hot headed and lacking judgment after the shooting occurred.

Less work for the prosecutor in that 'what if' scenario, most likely.

 

[SoonerP226]

Based on the document, I wonder how things would be now if Kottka had just admitted to being hot headed and lacking judgment after the shooting occurred.

I dunno, but I have a sneaking suspicion that it wouldn't have made any difference. Based on the version of events that the court found credible, this was never going to end well for Kottka, regardless of what happened after the fact. I suppose it's possible that the DA could've gone for a lesser charge instead of murder one, but who knows.