so, how long until an incident occurs involving a child

[crimeftr]

Ive read some good points on both sides. One of the main things that come to mind is sitting on a plane and having to make that telephone call to family and tell them that my plane was hijacked. On the other side, I can’t say as I want someone abusing their authority to oogle or make fun of my wife and daughter through their body scanner. I recently (back in June) went through that body scanner in Dallas and didn't know what it was, so I wasn't offended. Yes my wife went through it as well. IMO as long as they dont hold a person in the machine for an extended period of time, I dont have a problem with it. Now if the machine can take pictures and save them, or they start holding people in the machine to show others, I then have a problem.
In the past I worked as a jailer and had to watch male inmates change into jail attire and I was not in any way thrilled to do it. But It was my job. When I was working as a probation officer, I have to administer UA’s and had to observe the person fill the cup. I was not thrilled to do so either. Again it was my job. Im sure the TSA workers for the most part feel the same way. I also know there is going to be the ones that abuse their authority as well and those should be dealt with accordingly.
As far as the Security, you get what you pay for…It is not a highly qualified position to sit behind a monitor and look at people walking through. I cant think of any industry that is going to pay someone with extensive “security” training the high dollar salary to sit behind a monitor or stand with a wand. If you check into it, getting certified to be a security guard in Oklahoma is really a joke. (Not trying to offend anyone in that profession either)

 

[Ghost]

There will never be another 9/11 just because of bulletproof and locked cockpit doors. So why all of the fuss. What is the Gov. going to do to us if someone bombs the security line? They would probably kill more people than they could on a plane.

These pat downs are close to the ones they do when you go to jail. It's crazy to see it being done to an old woman going to visit her grand kids.

 

[TerryMiller]

Ive read some good points on both sides. One of the main things that come to mind is sitting on a plane and having to make that telephone call to family and tell them that my plane was hijacked. On the other side, I can’t say as I want someone abusing their authority to oogle or make fun of my wife and daughter through their body scanner. I recently (back in June) went through that body scanner in Dallas and didn't know what it was, so I wasn't offended. Yes my wife went through it as well. IMO as long as they dont hold a person in the machine for an extended period of time, I dont have a problem with it. Now if the machine can take pictures and save them, or they start holding people in the machine to show others, I then have a problem.
In the past I worked as a jailer and had to watch male inmates change into jail attire and I was not in any way thrilled to do it. But It was my job. When I was working as a probation officer, I have to administer UA’s and had to observe the person fill the cup. I was not thrilled to do so either. Again it was my job. Im sure the TSA workers for the most part feel the same way. I also know there is going to be the ones that abuse their authority as well and those should be dealt with accordingly.
As far as the Security, you get what you pay for…It is not a highly qualified position to sit behind a monitor and look at people walking through. I cant think of any industry that is going to pay someone with extensive “security” training the high dollar salary to sit behind a monitor or stand with a wand. If you check into it, getting certified to be a security guard in Oklahoma is really a joke. (Not trying to offend anyone in that profession either)

The point of my previous post was that we are doing airport security all wrong. With the scanners, metal detectors, and pat-downs, all we are doing is looking for weapons. What they should be doing is looking for terrorists and criminals.

For that, profiling is the best method by far. Using El-Al as an example, that is a situation more in line that the airline is responsible for the security, and not the government, at least in the application of the security. If we were to do away with TSA and put the airlines in charge of security, they could better be responsible for getting the proper security. All the government would need to do is provide exemptions to the security personnel and companies from being sued for "profiling." Since the airlines have a monetary incentive to insure that their flights are safe, I think they would be able to hire the security entities that in turn would be hiring people trained in profiling.

I am not a "trained" profiler, but having been a manager of a major electronics store, I learned to "pick out" those more likely to be shoplifters. I learned to view the actions of people within my store, including the employees, and be able to pick out suspicious people. Then, I made it a point to be right in their faces during their visit to my store. Nothing discourages a thief more than someone right on your shoulder at every turn. The store that I managed had very minimal losses due to that criminal element. My store's inventory loss figures were very low.

Point is, if I can pick them out, trained personnel would be even more effective. Hence, the reference to El-Al having not had any hijackings or anything else in decades because of their security.
.

 

[stewartglock]

It is a federal government job, a background investigation and drug screening would be conducted at a minimum.

 

[cjjtulsa]

If those private companies are serious about being able to handle airport security, don't you think they would want people trained in profiling and not just some "minimum wage" flunky with only a high school diploma? I mean, Crud, some of these "high school graduates" can't even make change..

Neither can many college grads - again, that diploma doesn't make you smart. Just means you supported the higher-ed system for four years or so.

Just profile - it's stupid that we don't. Yes, there are a few outliers, but for the most part we know the demographic, and ignoring it only to spend millions and millions of dollars we don't have to avoid "offending people" (or at least offending the demographic of people who are largely responsible) is amazingly stupid. But our government raises the bar for stupidity every few days, it seems.

 

[Glocktogo]

For that, profiling is the best method by far. Using El-Al as an example, that is a situation more in line that the airline is responsible for the security, and not the government, at least in the application of the security. If we were to do away with TSA and put the airlines in charge of security, they could better be responsible for getting the proper security. All the government would need to do is provide exemptions to the security personnel and companies from being sued for "profiling." Since the airlines have a monetary incentive to insure that their flights are safe, I think they would be able to hire the security entities that in turn would be hiring people trained in profiling.

Apparently you have memory loss. The airlines were in charge of screening on 9/11. The equipment was faulty, training was minimal, employee standards were lax and pay was terrible. Security is a cost center, not a profit center. For profit businesses spend as little as humanly possible on cost centers because they negatively affect the bottom line.

TSA screeners undergo continuous Security Threat Assessments, Criminal History Records Checks, pre-employment testing, panel interviews, extensive training WELL beyond what pre 9/11 screeners received, daily operational testing, annual recertification testing AND the covert testing that I do on them, not to mention the TSA Red Teams. TSA screeners are more thoroughly vetted than your avearge hospital staffer and certainly more thoroughly vetted than the teachers, coaches, daycare employees and Catholic priests that you might hand your kids over to. Not to mention that they have numerous surveillance cameras, law enforcement officers, leads, supervisors, managers and the entire travelling public watching them like a hawk the entire time they perfrorm their jobs.

While it's patently ridiculous to require a college degree for the aviation security screening workforce, you'd be surprised how many of them do have college degrees. Promotions and transfers are highly competitive and management development training is in place. Additionally, screeners are required to take continuous training and development courses, both classroom and online.

As far as titillation and sexual predation, you've got to be joking. For every hot passenger coming through there's 20 typical Americans. I've seen screeners nearly gag having to search passengers and bags that are absolutely disgusting. Trust me, they're hating it a LOT more than you are. TSA does not store images period. When the IO officer goes to the next image the previous one is gone. I love it when the idiot media goes haywire about the federal courthouse storing images and they show TSA at the airport.

EVERY TSA screener receives behavioral profilie training to a certain extent. They're more empowered to speak up about suspicious activity than pre 9/11 screeners were. Specially trained Behavioral Detection Officers are further trained in detecting suspicious behavior. Inspectors like myself are extensively trained in detecting suspicious behavior, deception, interviews and interrogations, fraudulent document examination, etc. I've actually received training in counter-terrorist operations from former Israeli security professionals as part of my professional development.

We have multiple TSA certified explosive detection K-9 teams at the airport that work closely with us. We work closely with the FBI, JTTF, ICE, Customs, local agencies, etc. What I've told you in this post is readily available open source information. I haven't even scratched the surface or revealed any risk management measures covered under FOUO, SSI and classified documents.

This thread is full of so much misinformation and FUD that it should be shut down and deleted.

 

[NikatKimber]

The expert here has spoken.