Unconstitutional Oklahoma House of Reps Committee Kills Open Carry Bill

[ConstitutionCowboy]

The Oklahoma House Public Safety committee has killed legislation to allow concealed carry permit holders to carry weapons openly

This is quite curious since there is nothing in the Oklahoma Constitution to allow the House of Representatives to have legislative committees, and the Oklahoma Constitution, Section V-34, requires that ALL bills be read on three different days in each House, and if it has a number, it's a bill.

The Oklahoma Senate may have legislative(standing) committees per Section V- 28, but nowhere in the Oklahoma Constitution is the House authorized to create such committees let alone to grant such committees the power to kill a bill. Such power would be in violation of Section V-34.

Now, if the House wants to create committees to DRAFT legislation, I can see where such power would not violate the Oklahoma Constitution, but once drafted, submitted by a representative, and assigned a bill number, like all bills presented and assigned a number(each Rep is allowed to introduce 8 bills each session), it should be read three times on the House floor and given an up or down vote. Period.

I had the opportunity to ask Kris Steele(Speaker of the House) about this today, and he stated that the "committees" are created under the House's "legislative powers", but could not reconcile that with the requirement in the Oklahoma Constitution to read every bill on three different days in the house (unless two-thirds of a quorum present vote to dispense with the reading per Section V-35, which does not negate the requirement for an up or down vote. A committee with 17 members is hardly a quorum.). He said he'd get back to me.

Woody

 

[vvvvvvv]

The committees are based on Article V Section 30 Clause 2.

Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member.​

In the House Rules (this year, HR1008), the House grants the following power to the Speaker as a rule governing the proceedings of the House in House Rule 1.8:

(a) The Speaker shall create, abolish and establish the jurisdiction of all standing committees, special committees and subcommittees of the House of Representatives.

(b) The Speaker shall appoint the chairpersons and vicechairpersons of all standing committees, special committees and subcommittees of the House of Representatives and shall appoint the cochairpersons and covice-chairpersons from the House for any joint committees of the Legislature.

(c) The Speaker shall appoint the membership of all standing committees, special committees and subcommittees of the House of Representatives and shall appoint the members constituting the House’s delegation to any joint committees of the Legislature.

(d) All chairpersons, cochairpersons, vice-chairpersons, covice-chairpersons and members of any House committee, subcommittee or joint committee shall serve at the pleasure of the Speaker.

(e) The Speaker shall be an ex officio voting member of all standing, special and joint committees.​

I've been looking into this off and on for quite a while and have a 60%-finished blog post drafted on the subject, including why that obviously circumvents the intent of the framers of the Oklahoma Constitution and what Oklahoma taxpayers can (and can't) do about it.

The part about three readings being required in each Chamber, I can't find a way for the legislature to circumvent that one.

 

[mhphoto]

He said he'd get back to me.

Sure hope he does.

 

[owassopilot]

The committees are based on Article V Section 30 Clause 2.

Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member.​

In the House Rules (this year, HR1008), the House grants the following power to the Speaker as a rule governing the proceedings of the House in House Rule 1.8:

(a) The Speaker shall create, abolish and establish the jurisdiction of all standing committees, special committees and subcommittees of the House of Representatives.

(b) The Speaker shall appoint the chairpersons and vicechairpersons of all standing committees, special committees and subcommittees of the House of Representatives and shall appoint the cochairpersons and covice-chairpersons from the House for any joint committees of the Legislature.

(c) The Speaker shall appoint the membership of all standing committees, special committees and subcommittees of the House of Representatives and shall appoint the members constituting the House’s delegation to any joint committees of the Legislature.

(d) All chairpersons, cochairpersons, vice-chairpersons, covice-chairpersons and members of any House committee, subcommittee or joint committee shall serve at the pleasure of the Speaker.

(e) The Speaker shall be an ex officio voting member of all standing, special and joint committees.​

I've been looking into this off and on for quite a while and have a 60%-finished blog post drafted on the subject, including why that obviously circumvents the intent of the framers of the Oklahoma Constitution and what Oklahoma taxpayers can (and can't) do about it.

The part about three readings being required in each Chamber, I can't find a way for the legislature to circumvent that one.

Interesting...i would like to read the blog when you are finished with it.

 

[vvvvvvv]

Interesting...i would like to read the blog when you are finished with it.

It will probably be sometime in May. Like I said, it's been an off and on thing for me since it's one of those things that I know won't be changing by the end of the session. I want to make sure I have everything covered, and I'm debating on making it a short 3 or 4 post series or just go with the information overload.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Here is an e-mail I sent to the Speaker:

Mr. Speaker;

Last Friday, April 8, 2011, at the High Noon Club, I asked you how you can reconcile a bill being voted down in a committee when the Oklahoma Constitution clearly requires that all bills shall be read in each house on three different days, and the question upon final passage shall be taken upon its last reading.

There is simply no way around Section V-34 of the Oklahoma Constitution. All bills shall be read three times. The vote to answer the passage question shall be taken upon its last reading.

Allowing a bill to be killed in committee is contrary to the Oklahoma Constitution. It would be no different than stating that a bill approved in a committee is passed. In either scenario, far less than a quorum of the elected representatives voted - let alone a majority of the elected
representatives, and every district lacking representation on such a committee would not have been represented in the decision process. That's legislation without representation.

It is clearly a miscarriage of the Oklahoma legislative process to kill a bill in committee, and I would like to know when you as Speaker of the House of Representatives shall rectify this miscarriage? By right, all bills not read all three times and not voted on by the whole of the House of Representatives must be placed back on the docket for completion of the legislative process as proscribed by the Oklahoma Constitution.

Cordially;

Bruce "Woody" Wood

I'll post any response I get.

Woody

 

[DeadEyeDick]

Here is an e-mail I sent to the Speaker:



I'll post any response I get.

Woody

Please do!!

 

[Werewolf]

There is simply no way around Section V-34 of the Oklahoma Constitution. All bills shall be read three times. The vote to answer the passage question shall be taken upon its last reading.

Sure there is. A way around it that is.

The legislature just ignores the law without consequence. What are they gonna do? Impeach theirselves? Is a county sheriff gonna show up and arrest them all.

Provisions like you've noted in the OK constitution are meaningless babble. Unenforceable.

That said: if you do get a response it will be some weasel worded loophole garbage that is pure BS but will sound good to the rabble if the pols are ever called on the issue publicly. It's what politicians do. It's who they are.

 

[vvvvvvv]

Sure there is. A way around it that is.

The legislature just ignores the law without consequence. What are they gonna do? Impeach theirselves? Is a county sheriff gonna show up and arrest them all.

Provisions like you've noted in the OK constitution are meaningless babble. Unenforceable.

That said: if you do get a response it will be some weasel worded loophole garbage that is pure BS but will sound good to the rabble if the pols are ever called on the issue publicly. It's what politicians do. It's who they are.

There seems to be a way for the taxpayer to have legal standing to bring suit. This is one of those times where I wish I could afford Shepard's to be closer to certain, though.

And then there is also the polls. And it seems that a legislative body following the Constitution that governs it will be a big topic in 2012.

 

[Werewolf]

There seems to be a way for the taxpayer to have legal standing to bring suit. This is one of those times where I wish I could afford Shepard's to be closer to certain, though.

Would take big bucks to bring suit against the legislature - assuming that that is even possible - and probably years to resolve the issue. By that time the issue at hand which prompted the suit would either have been resolved or become moot by the time the suit was resolved. Still no consequence other than a lot of private and tax payer money being spent.

And then there is also the polls. And it seems that a legislative body following the Constitution that governs it will be a big topic in 2012.

Again - timing. Who will really remember when it comes time to vote the bums out. And those that do? Most will fall prey to the it's your guy who sucks, my guy is an angel syndrome and most of the malefactors will retain their seats as always.