Does anyone else on the board not like 1911's?

[inactive]

The real question is are you ready to spend $2600 for a single handgun??

I certainly am not, as I don't perceive $2,250 more reliability in that thing versus my used XD or $2,000 more than a new Glock- nothing against that fine weapon particularly.

If we are talking future collectibility, I don't see $1,600 more over a new Colt Gold Cup. But that's just me.

And as much I as have objectively championed my XD and other polymer pistols for carry practicality, I am thiiiiis close to buying a Gold Cup, just for the hell of it!


If you ever watched The Wire, you should recognize who this is:

 

[Traxxis]

Here again, for arguments sake. Keep in mind, I like 1911s more than Glocks (I just prefer to carry a glock).

I have piece of mind w/ my Glocks. I have accuracy w/ my glocks. So, unless its subjective, what is the quantative value add in "quality" and craftsmanship for $2050.

Also, I already know the answer for me, so this is half rhetorical and half wondering your opinion.

Ask any mechanic why they choose to use Snap-On or Mac rather than Harbor Freight or Craftsman tools.

Value is part quantitative, and part qualitative. The numerical value can be totally different than the perceived value. Assuming the the numerical value is attainable, the perceived value can be infinite. Therefore, the $2000 that my gun cost is WAY outweighed by my perceived value and my piece of mind.

I don't know how else to answer you question... you cannot always place a quantitative value on things.

I can tell you though that the quality difference in parts between a Norinco, and that of DBG's, Mike's and NHC's is huge.

Norinco barrel is maybe $60
Schumann Barrel $300
Difference $240

Norinco Ignition Components $60?
Nowlin Kit $150
Difference $90

GI Sights $25
Novaks with cut $200
Difference $175

No idea on price differences between slide and frame, but it can be several hundred dollars.

Creature comforts (both functional and cosmetic) like checkering and rear of slide serrations... all can bring up to a thousand.

Thanks for interrupting my Law and Order! If some of this doesn't make sense... I was really enjoying this episode.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

Ask any mechanic why they choose to use Snap-On or Mac rather than Harbor Freight or Craftsman tools.

Value is part quantitative, and part qualitative. The numerical value can be totally different than the perceived value. Assuming the the numerical value is attainable, the perceived value can be infinite. Therefore, the $2000 that my gun cost is WAY outweighed by my perceived value and my piece of mind.

I don't know how else to answer you question... you cannot always place a quantitative value on things.

I can tell you though that the quality difference in parts between a Norinco, and that of DBG's, Mike's and NHC's is huge.

Norinco barrel is maybe $60
Schumann Barrel $300
Difference $240

Norinco Ignition Components $60?
Nowlin Kit $150
Difference $90

GI Sights $25
Novaks with cut $200
Difference $175

No idea on price differences between slide and frame, but it can be several hundred dollars.

Creature comforts (both functional and cosmetic) like checkering and rear of slide serrations... all can bring up to a thousand.

Thanks for interrupting my Law and Order! If some of this doesn't make sense... I was really enjoying this episode.

Snap on doesnt have a 500% pricepoint difference versus kobalt or craftsman...

...

Combat reliability, and life expectancy are meaningless unless you know for sure. Until the thing dies or perma fails, you only have a subjective guess as to how much longer it will live than another gun or how much more combat reliable it is...

So.....?

 

[JD8]

Personally, I would like to one day.

But it begs the question... What is the value added in a $2600 gun opposed to a $550 gun. If its truly a function > form, How much more reliability/accuracy should $2050 represent?

Sorry, Traxis/GMT. You know I love the '11.

No appologies, that's a completely fair statement. My shots with a 1911 are faster on target, I'm more accurate with a 1911, and the 1911 conceals better than any .45 platform out there..... for me. I can carry my Norinco or a cheaper quality platform just fine, but I had a safe full of guns I didn't shoot as often so I traded it in for a Baer, Wilsons, Springers and Greyson customs. Now my Glocks hardly get shot. I also have picked up some Steyrs and XDMs and Kahrs. With the exception of the Kahrs, everything else gets shot significantly less than my 1911s. Little extras allow the gun to sit lower in my hand and allow me to have quicker target aquisition. So to me, it's worth the extra money.

I will say this, I believe a Wilson is a good value. It's american made and owned, it's hand built, doesn't really loose too much value if you sell it, and best of all..... Wilson has a no questions asked CS. They bend over backwards for you and you'll have a gun for a lifetime. I mean when a Glock blows up, or needs one of those famous "UPGRADES" to address a design problem, then how quick are they to react? Not very.

Now I look at this as someone that can afford these kinds of guns after consolidating a collection. If someone lives month to month OR is not in a situation not to pick one of these up, then it doesn't make sense to spend the money. In the same way, I can't afford a $75K Lexus or Infiniti.... and when it goes down the road.... I don't *****, piss and moan about the cost and talk about how my Honda has x amount of miles on it. I simply admire the car.

Here's one thing though or hypocrisy that I've always noticed. If Maj Malfunction posts a NFA platform of some sort.... nobody wants to talk about a pissing match of cost, reliability, value, etc or knock the platform altogether. They just appreciate the weapon for what it is. Same way with ARs..... same way with Bolt actions posted. Yet.... post a high end 1911 and someone goes apeshyt because their $700 is just as reliable or they talk about their daddy's friend's cousin who couldn't get theirs to run right.

 

[Traxxis]

Snap on doesnt have a 500% pricepoint difference versus kobalt or craftsman...

Bullcrap! Have you seen the price of their tools lately?

I've got a $20 torque wrench from HF...

Step father who has mechanic'ed for years has....
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...5&group_ID=954&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

That is CONSIDERABLY more than a $550 Norinco vs a $2500 Nighthawk.

I will say this, I believe a Wilson is a good value. It's american made and owned, it's hand built, doesn't really loose too much value if you sell it, and best of all..... Wilson has a no questions asked CS. They bend over backwards for you and you'll have a gun for a lifetime. I mean when a Glock blows up, or needs one of those famous "UPGRADES" to address a design problem, then how quick are they to react? Not very.

Oiy... I'm not even going to start...

 

[WhiteyMacD]

No appologies, that's a completely fair statement. My shots with a 1911 are faster on target, I'm more accurate with, and the 1911 conceals better than any .45 platform out there..... for me. I can carry my Norinco, but I had a safe full of guns I didn't shoot as often so I traded it in for a Baer, Wilsons, Springers and Greyson customs. Now my Glocks hardly get shot. I also have picked up some Steyrs and XDMs and Kahrs. With the exception of the Kahrs, everything else gets shot significantly less than my 1911s. Little extras allow the gun to sit lower in my hand and allow me to have quicker target aquisition. So to me, it's worth the extra money.

We agree then, its subjective. And I agree with every point, Im just more of a fence rider on the 1911 vs Glock debate.

I will say this, I believe a Wilson is a good value. It's american made and owned, it's hand built, doesn't really loose too much value if you sell it, and best of all..... Wilson has a no questions asked CS. They bend over backwards for you and you'll have a gun for a lifetime. I mean when a Glock blows up, or needs one of those famous "UPGRADES" to address a design problem, then how quick are they to react? Not very.

Agree with the statement about Wilson. Cant argue the point with Glock CS as I have never had an issue that warranted contacting them... <evil grin>

Now I look at this as someone that can afford these kinds of guns after consolidating a collection. If someone lives month to month OR is not in a situation not to pick one of these up, then it doesn't make sense to spend the money. In the same way, I can't afford a $75K Lexus or Infiniti.... and when it goes down the road.... I don't *****, piss and moan about the cost and talk about how my Honda has x amount of miles on it. I simply admire the car.

Agree here as well. Dont think that my questions are trying to say they arent worth it.

Here's one thing though or hypocrisy that I've always noticed. If Maj Malfunction posts a NFA platform of some sort.... nobody wants to talk about a pissing match of cost, reliability, value, etc or knock the platform altogether. They just appreciate the weapon for what it is. Same way with ARs..... same way with Bolt actions posted. Yet.... post a high end 1911 and someone goes apeshyt because their $700 is just as reliable or they talk about their daddy's friend's cousin who couldn't get theirs to run right.

I agree here as well, but reliability claims from either side is conjecture is it not?

Not related to GMTs post, but I need a definition of "Combat Reliability." I take that as reliability during combat which involves the possible adverse condition. So by saying said cost difference buys you "Combat Reliability" are you saying a custom matched 1911 will outperform other guns of lesser cost (since this turned into a Glock vs 1911 discussion, lets say a glock) in, say, the "sandbox" or "swamp" or "arctic" zones? I could see that arguement if we were talking about the WWII 1911s and their very loose tolerances, but that would also mean Combat Reliability is gained by the sacrifice of accuracy.

 

[Traxxis]

Combat reliability and match reliability mean nothing to me... reliability to me is 100%... I've said it over and over.

I don't care if it's a Grock, 1911 or a Matel (sp?) AR... I expect 100% reliability and will settle for nothing less for a carry gun. The only kind of failures I will over look are true ammo or mag failures.... (squib loads... etc...).

 

[Traxxis]

Agree with the statement about Wilson. Cant argue the point with Glock CS as I have never had an issue that warranted contacting them... <evil grin>

Funny.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

Funny.

So my 1911s dont jump me the next time I get too close to my safe,... I have never had to contact Colt, Kimber or Springfield on my 1911s either.

 

[Traxxis]

So my 1911s dont jump me the next time I get too close to my safe,... I have never had to contact Colt, Kimber or Springfield on my 1911s either.

lol, I just thought it was funny.