FBI switching to 9mm

[Sanford]

NATO calls for 112-128gn projectile, sorry don't remember the source.
Either way - current shipment is 124gn.

So the 115gr originally under discussion would have been within the "standard" range, thanks.

You know the bottom line with all of this is that each of us has made our own decision based on how we read the data, and most of us are hardheaded enough nobody's going to change our minds anyway. I know that it only takes one round of .25ACP to kill a person where they stand - but I wouldn't stake my life on 6+1 in a Raven if I had any other alternatives.

 

[OKCShooter]

Most of your **** is

Even though this is eloquently written, I have no idea what this means.

 

[CHenry]

Even though this is eloquently written, I have no idea what this means.

That surprises me...not.

 

[MoBoost]

So the 115gr originally under discussion would have been within the "standard" range, thanks.

You know the bottom line with all of this is that each of us has made our own decision based on how we read the data, and most of us are hardheaded enough nobody's going to change our minds anyway. I know that it only takes one round of .25ACP to kill a person where they stand - but I wouldn't stake my life on 6+1 in a Raven if I had any other alternatives.

I am very willing to change my mind; it's just not going to be due to one undocumented test, performed with a gun that doesn't exist and unspecified ammo fired upon erroneous target.

I have both guns, practice and compete with both.

I believe that 9mm is superior to 45ACP in ALL aspects of self-defense: concealability, weight, capacity, reliability, penetration and follow-up shots.

The whole inception of 45ACP is absurd just like 30-06: see, 38s and 30-40 would just bounce off Moros

Anyhow, I am still all ears.

P.S. 124gn is M882 standard issue, and has been for years - twist it all you want, it is what it is.

 

[OKCShooter]

That surprises me...not.

People (above 16) are still doing that whole "not" thing at the end of sentences?

I guess this thread has officially gone off track.

 

[mightymouse]

The only thing I'm sure of here is that the FBI could care less what the consensus opinion of OSA is on their decision to go back to the 9mm. The definitive study by the Bureau on that very subject is due to be released in a matter of weeks.

 

[Big_McLargehuge]

It's less that I don't like it than it is that I don't really care about it. I mentioned it to keep a level playing field because someone wanted to discount my 14 round mags as they thought they didn't come standard with the gun - not a big deal, my wife's P226 came with 20 round mags. For any scenario I anticipate ever getting involved in, 8 is probably enough, 10 may be more than enough, and 14 is in all likelihood excess - if I had much more I might get myself in trouble.

Some lawmakers in NY would agree with you.

People (above 16) are still doing that whole "not" thing at the end of sentences?

I guess this thread has officially gone off track.

It's 2014 and people are still doing the "not" joke. And here I thought Borat finally killed it.

 

[ASP785]

I am curious what the 45 caliber advocates split times are? I can run about a .17 accurately at about 15 yards or less and keep it in the A zone with a G34.

I think this is important to discuss. With my FNP 45, I'm in the .24+ range. This could quite possibly be a training problem, since I don't shoot it all that often. Split times are important, especially if you miss and everyone including those on the internet, misses occasionally.

Everyone agrees that a shot through the brain will be lethal whether its a .22LR or 50 AE. I carry a Glock 19 mostly, so for some of you carrying the double stack 45's we have similar magazine capacities. Since death is not a relative term, does it really matter if you get shot with a 9 or a 45 to the head? Both shots have the same outcome. When looking at other areas of shot placements, there are plenty of stories where a 9 or a 45 was inadequate to stop the threat. At this point, the more ammunition you have, the better you probably are.

 

[Sanford]

The whole inception of 45ACP is absurd just like 30-06: see, 38s and 30-40 would just bounce off Moros

Do you have a link for that?

P.S. 124gn is M882 standard issue, and has been for years - twist it all you want, it is what it is.

And the standard is the standard.

 

[Coded-Dude]