Perhaps the .50 GI cartridge should be renamed the .45&50GI since the case rim is the same as the .45 ACP.
TITLE 21 § 1290.6. Prohibited ammunition
PROHIBITED AMMUNITION
Any concealed handgun when carried in a manner authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 26 of this act, when loaded with any ammunition which is either a restricted bullet as defined by Section 1289.19 of Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes or is larger than .45 caliber or is otherwise prohibited by law shall be deemed a prohibited weapon for purposes of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished for a criminal offense as provided by Section 1272 of title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes or any other applicable provision of law. In addition to any criminal prosecution for a violation of the provisions of this section, the licensee shall be subject to an administrative fine of Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.
Webster defines caliber as:
1 a : degree of mental capacity or moral quality b : degree of excellence or importance
2 a : the diameter of a bullet or other projectile b : the diameter of a bore of a gun usually expressed in hundredths or thousandths of an inch and typically written as a decimal fraction <.32 caliber>
3 : the diameter of a round or cylindrical body; especially : the internal diameter of a hollow cylinder
My earlier comment shows that like most laws, its up to how someone interprets the law.
One could argue that under the "prohibited ammunition" section, witch deals with the bullet types and sizes, it states that bullet caliber (the diameter of a bullet or other projectile) is not to exceed .45
As Bill "slick Willy" Clinton said "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is."
Perhaps the law makers just rounded down from 3 decimal places. If a .452 is ok perhaps a .454" is ok too?
I would hope that anyone defending themselves with a .45 ACP, under the OK SDA law, would not have defend their use of a bullet with a normal diameter of .452" just because the law left a little up to interpretation.
454 is ok because..........wait for it.................it's 45 CAL, the statute reads that way,it doesn't matter what Webster says.That bears the question.....why would anyone want to risk the potential over penetration of a powerhouse cal. like the 454 Casul as a defensive handgun??
There's no reason at all.It's an arbitrary number.But it does go to show how ignorant the writers of the SDA were.
I would assume that the reason is that rounds larger than 45 would generally (or at least easily cause problems for the innocent people AROUND the situation rather than those BAD people IN the situation.
My personal favorite caliber is .40, but when I am looking at small weapons for concealment, 9mm feels downright huge to me so I am probably looking at a nice little .380 with some quality HP ammo.
If brown posterior matter hit the oscillating object in the sky, the chances of bad people hitting the ground is the same and the good people have less to worry about.
* * * * *
Plus, it seems more logical to think that there are reasons like that than stereotyping people that wrote the laws as ignorant. I would love to see a source reference for the fact that the law was written "arbitrarily" and I would definitely love to see any kid of source reference detailing how someone without any clue wrote the law.
No one ever went back to the car for a smaller gun in a gunfight!
I wish they would let you carry whatever you desired. Why should the legislature tell you what you need to save your own life? I think they like the control.
Mark
I believe it was the intention, of the legislators of the Oklahoma SDA, that a licencee would not carry a firearm that was capable of defeating the body armor of the local and state police. Those in opposition to the bill warned of "wild west style shootouts" if we all had permission to carry concealed firearms in public. Its my opinion that the prohibited ammunition clause was a compromise to ease worries of the opposition.
My take on the ".45 caliber bullet" of TITLE 21 § 1290.6. is that the legislators were referencing the .45 ACP round, as it was the most common of the "concealable handgun" calibers (barrel bore) at the time of the bills introduction.
I feel that the TITLE 21 § 1290.6. leaves to much for interpretation like the definition of "Caliber". If they are referring to the diameter of the projectile, does .45 mean .450" , .454", or .459" max diameter? Since TITLE 21 § 1290.6. is there to limit ammunition I think someone could argue that it states .45 and not a thousandth of an inch more.
Again thats not what I think it means, but i'm nether an lawyer or judge
My take on the ".45 caliber bullet" of TITLE 21 § 1290.6. is that the legislators were referencing the .45 ACP round, as it was the most common of the "concealable handgun" calibers (barrel bore) at the time of the bills introduction.
I feel that the TITLE 21 § 1290.6. leaves to much for interpretation like the definition of "Caliber". If they are referring to the diameter of the projectile, does .45 mean .450" , .454", or .459" max diameter? Since TITLE 21 § 1290.6. is there to limit ammunition I think someone could argue that it states .45 and not a thousandth of an inch more.
Again thats not what I think it means, but i'm nether an lawyer or judge
Since the law only specifies 2 digits of precision I would think rounding off .451 through .454 .to .45 complies with the language of the law.
**** it, just carry a .308 handgun.
This is probably very close to the reason for their decision on caliber. They probably didn't want someone carrying a Contender in 30.06, or other rifle type caliber.
That's exactly my point about this law... the TC Contender in .30'06 and the MRI Lone Eagle in .308 (the picture I posted) are both legal to carry, since they both fire projectiles measuring .308"... well under the .45 requirement, no matter how you interpret it. However, they are both far more powerful and have far more penetration than a .50 GI, or even a .50 AE or .500 S&W. No vest short of a full ceramic plated one would stop them.
And as far as pistol rounds go, the ones that penetrate the best are all of smaller caliber, like 5.7x28, 7.62x25, and .357 SIG. Sectional density is what defeats armor -- this is achieved with a small projectile with lots of energy behind it.
Not that the people who write gun control laws have to know anything about the subject they are regulating... the same goes for most things those disgraces we elect to office make laws on. The economy is a good example... they are trying to regulate something about which they and their supposed "experts" obviously know very little.
As for how the law would be interpreted, that is up to the courts. Many times they look to the dictionary definition of words when trying to construe a statute, but they also look to the legislative history to get at the true intent behind it. I think a court would likely recognize that the members of the legislature are not experts on firearms, and find that by the term ".45 caliber," the legislature was referring to cartridges that are commonly known as ".45s," like the .45 ACP. But who knows -- it is possible for them to go the other way, too.
This issue will never see a courtroom though, and no .45-packing individual has anything to worry about. For someone to be prosecuted based on this, you would first have to have an officer who knows that a .45 ACP is actually .452", which I would bet the vast majority do not, and who is actually enough of an anti-liberty nazi that he is willing to arrest someone for this; and you would also have to have a DA who cares enough about this minute issue to actually press charges, knowing that a court would probably go the other way. Its just not going to happen.
But we should definitely add this law to the towering stack of horrible, anti-libertarian pieces of legislation that need to be repealed... along with the law that prohibits the public carry of weapons in the first place.
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