A fix to Oklahoma CCW law, instead of an open carry law?

[doctorjj]

I sure hope a reasonable OC law with good, strong language is allowed to pass this year.

I broke the law and open carried for about 1 and a half steps today. I was in my truck and it was getting hot so I yanked off my fleece. I pulled into a store to buy a coke and flung open the door and stepped out. I took about 1 step toward the door and was like "Oh $#!t" when I realized that my Glock was now on the outside of my undershirt with nothing over it in my OWB Galco. I quickly jumped back into the truck and threw the fleece back on.

 

[Werewolf]

The NRA did not support the Open Carry Bill as passed because of some of the clauses in the bill were not acceptable to the NRA and the fact that some legislators stated the bill was being supported by the NRA when it was not supported.

I cannot specifically say which clauses were objectionable, but they did exist.

What might those clauses be?

To the best of my knowledge what changed was the SDA law where it said concealed. Concealed was ammended to read concealed or unconcealed.

That's pretty much it. It made almost unrestricted OC legal for anyone with a current CCW or anyone getting one in the future. Not as good as the laws in states like AZ or VA or VT or NH of course; states where the citizens are trusted but a good start.

If there were other parts of the current law changed it would be interesting to know what they were else the NRA is just blowing smoke.

This year, an Open Carry Bill will be introduced which follows the NRA format...

The NRA has a format for Open Carry? Where can we find this format? LINK?

...which to to support our Second Amendment Rights without compromise.

The RKBA is no longer a right. It has become a priviledge. You don't have to ask permission to exercise a right.

NRA/Compromise. It's surprising that if one looks up either in a thesaurus that the two are not considered synonomous because the NRA and compromise are one in the same. That's who they are. That's what they do. Always.

The NRA does have a place in the grand scheme of things. They have helped the cause of RKBA but sometimes I wonder at what cost.

Of course some amendments will most likely be added, but hopefully the bill will pass and our rights will be extended further.

Amendments to what? There is no bill yet and IMO even when there is it'll never get by the chief RINO in charge of the Public Safety committee, Sue Tibbs. In any events why should there be any provisos restricting OC? Why?

OH wait! Read the current law. Gotta keep those restrictions in there about where one can carry don't we. Check 'em out. With the exceptions of schools all the restricted places are spots where our masters - oops - I mean beloved rulers - errrr - leaders hang out. Can't have honest, responsible and law abiding citizens carrying around them now can we? Of course those are the only folks who'd disarm themselves 'cuz by definition the criminals could care less and will continue to carry concealed regardless of the law just as they always have.

There will be some folks who hate guns who will object to seeing guns carried openly, but the majority of Okies don't care. It will be a non event when those who choose to open carry do so. Just like it has been in all the other states that adopted open carry.

Hopefully you are right.

If you look at Mary Fallin's NRA rating, you will see that she will support any step forward in our Second Amendment Rights. Unless the bill is really messed up, I would guess she will sign the bill ASAP. I would be really surprised if she vetoed the bill.

Again - One sincerely hopes you are correct.

 

[vvvvvvv]

The NRA did not support the Open Carry Bill as passed because of some of the clauses in the bill were not acceptable to the NRA

If that's what the NRA is telling you now, you should punch them in the face for lying to you.

The NRA did not get involved because it was a state issue. The ORA? As usual, they were nowhere to be found.

and the fact that some legislators stated the bill was being supported by the NRA when it was not supported.

I don't recall a legislator claiming that the NRA supported it. What I do recall is Ms. Tibbs flashing her NRA member card and saying that she personally supported it as a member of the NRA.

I cannot specifically say which clauses were objectionable, but they did exist.

So the NRA does not support concealed carry, either? All HB3354 changed was adding "or unconcealed" to every instance of "concealed". It also removed the adjective "concealed" from any instance of "concealed handgun". It also changed "permit" to "license". It also gave the ability to judges to carry in courthouses.

It added the following definition:

“Unconcealed handgun” means a loaded or unloaded pistol carried upon the person in a belt holster that is wholly or partially visible, or carried upon the person in a scabbard or case designed for carrying firearms that is wholly or partially visible

The only issue I had was on page 87, where there was no provision for partial concealment. The wording required EITHER fully concealed from detection/view OR unconcealed in plain view.

Please, read the above link and tell me what clauses were an issue with the NRA.

This year, an Open Carry Bill will be introduced which follows the NRA format, which to to support our Second Amendment Rights without compromise.

What Werewolf said.

Show me the "NRA format". Their recent dealings do not demonstrate an ability for the NRA to "support our Second Amendment Rights without compromise." The fact that they supported reducing that right to a mere privilege subject to the whims of the Supreme Court should tell you that much.

Of course some amendments will most likely be added, but hopefully the bill will pass and our rights will be extended further.

If its truly a "Right", then you don't need a law to extend it. That's a contradictory statement.

There will be some folks who hate guns who will object to seeing guns carried openly, but the majority of Okies don't care. It will be a non event when those who choose to open carry do so. Just like it has been in all the other states that adopted open carry.

One part that I agree with.

If you look at Mary Fallin's NRA rating, you will see that she will support any step forward in our Second Amendment Rights. Unless the bill is really messed up, I would guess she will sign the bill ASAP. I would be really surprised if she vetoed the bill.

What does her NRA rating have to do with it? Jari Askins has an "A" rating from the NRA and a CWL, but yet opposed concealed carry.

I don't trust Mary Fallin any more than I trust Jari Askins. To both of them, citizens of Oklahoma are mere subjects unable to be responsible for themselves.

 

[Rabbitcreekok]

As I said, I don't know which clauses were objectionable to the NRA, but I was told that is why they did not support the bill.

I am not involved in that part of the NRA that works with legislators to propose legislation, so I guess I will find out what the NRA suggested open carry proposal when we we see the bill.

One can talk all day about our rights provided by the Constitution, however they have been altered by the courts of the nation. The Second Amendment is not the only part of the Constitution that is almost unrecognizable. If we sit back and whine about the abridgment of our rights and do nothing about regaining them, then we lose.

We must continue to fight to regain what was taken away, and the NRA is the best and the most successful organization in helping us to regain those rights. Sure, some folks find cause to complain, but who has done more to preserve and protect our Second Amendment rights?

 

[tagillespie]

As I said, I don't know which clauses were objectionable to the NRA, but I was told that is why they did not support the bill.

I am not involved in that part of the NRA that works with legislators to propose legislation, so I guess I will find out what the NRA suggested open carry proposal when we we see the bill.

One can talk all day about our rights provided by the Constitution, however they have been altered by the courts of the nation. The Second Amendment is not the only part of the Constitution that is almost unrecognizable. If we sit back and whine about the abridgment of our rights and do nothing about regaining them, then we lose.

We must continue to fight to regain what was taken away, and the NRA is the best and the most successful organization in helping us to regain those rights. Sure, some folks find cause to complain, but who has done more to preserve and protect our Second Amendment rights?

I am the director of OK2A. OK2A was the only RKBA organization supporting Open Carry at the Capitol earlier this year. I can tell you that no legislators claimed the NRA was supporting Open Carry last year becasue the NRA was no where to be found. We would have all loved for them to have joined the party, but alas, they did not - even after some legislators tried to get them invovled. If they were not going to support it, I wish they would have just stayed out of it; that would have been far better than what they did. They sent a letter to Rep. Tibbs saying that Open Carry was not their priority. Our Constitutional right is not their priority!? That statement gave Dan Sullivan and Pam Petterson (both Republican moderates) the cover they needed, along with the likes of Glen Bud Smithson (who said anyone who wants to open carry is a coward - oh, by the way, the NRA endorsed him for re-election) the cover they needed to oppose the bill. Not to mention, it allowed Brad Henry to say he was pro-Second Amendment while vetoing the bill.

 

[RaysZ71]

I grew up with open carry in Arizona. never thought 2 about seeing someone with a gun on there hip. When I rode my bike i always open carried. I hope we get open carry so we an have full rights to carry how we want and not worry about being a criminal if some anti gun person sees we are "Printing" and makes a big deal about it. IMHO
the people who are going to use there guns to harm others are not going to OPEN carry the are going to unlawfully CCW. having open carry would loosen up the stigma about carrying. I personally carry CCW everyday while on the job and everywhere I go. while I a pro open carry I would not carry open 75% of the time. I am mostly pro open carry to strengthen our local gun rights.
just my 2 cents

That's how I feel too.

 

[acp]

I am for our 2A rights. To carry whenever, however you feel is right without having to worry about the law because hey, it is a right! you know the "shall not be infringed" thing.
I read Mary Fallin's campaign website. She said she would sign the open carry law. I can only assume that she meant the one that Henry vetoed. I am not so stupid that I believe what was printed on her campaign website totally. But that what was there. I will be contacting my state representatives about the issue early next year.

 

[vvvvvvv]

As I said, I don't know which clauses were objectionable to the NRA, but I was told that is why they did not support the bill.

Like I said, if anything, they either had a problem with the current law or with allowing judges to carry in courthouses.

...the NRA is the best and the most successful organization in helping us to regain those rights. Sure, some folks find cause to complain, but who has done more to preserve and protect our Second Amendment rights?

I think the real question is, "Who has done more to abridge our Second Amendment Rights?"

A history lesson on the NRA can be pretty eye-opening.

Remember, these "Second Amendment organizations" exist only because of the threat of litigation against the Second Amendment. If that threat goes away, then they cease to have a reason to exist. This is why so many proclaimed "victory" in McDonald - a ruling which essentially said that governments are free to infringe upon the Second Amendment until told otherwise by the Supreme Court.

McDonald said that the Second Amendment grants only the right to possess a firearm for purposes of self defense within the home. All other Rights have yet to be granted.

 

[Werewolf]

McDonald said that the Second Amendment grants only the priviledge to possess a firearm for purposes of self defense within the home. All other Priveliges have yet to be granted.

There...

Fixed it for ya.

 

[vvvvvvv]

There...

Fixed it for ya.

"Right" and "Privilege" are used interchangeably quite often on this forum. Because of that, I was trying to avoid the obligatory reply whining "but were talking about Second Amendment RIGHTS! not PRIVILEGES!"



I think you knew that I know there is a difference.