A question for all Members of OSA

[TSQUARE]

I am financially unable to step up and donate the numbers above, but I would donate time, transportation, and food.

 

[BIG_MIKE2005]

I'm all for our teachers/school administrators to be trained & capable of handling these threats before emergency services can arrive. I honestly believe it can save lives. It's definitely better than a "close the door & pray" type plan they currently employ. To me that is just making yourself a sitting target like that poor teacher who hid her class but not herself & ended up shot. Had she been armed & had the children hidden at the same time she could have positioned herself in the room to engage a threat if it entered. Could very well have saved her life & some of those other children as well. But thats just my opinion.

Sadly I think there are too many people who cannot grasp this concept in our society to ever allow it to happen though. Yet they will cry in the streets about making schools safer, but unwilling to do whats its gonna actually take to make them as safe as possible.

 

[cooljeff]

I am a Special Education Teacher in Moore Schools. I can honestly say I wouldn't want to carry at school. I DO BELIEVE we should have access to weapons in the event these shootings or crimes happen. I just believe it would a severe distraction to my students learning, and unsafe in the instances that some of our kiddos get really mad and try to strip that gun from me. Working in Special Education I have a couple students who have become very violent when they didn't get what they want.

 

[tRidiot]

Teachers in Oklahoma making $40k+ with all costs? Sure... I got a friend who's been doing it, what 12-13 years? He is in the mid-30s I think, has some extra activity pay for driving bus and extracurricular functions. Add in his benefits, and I'd say he's over $40k, probably.

I'm not saying teachers are overpaid, believe me... but in that same town, that teacher is still making probably 20% more than the cops with Bachelor's degrees. Maybe even more, with better hours, better working conditions and better pay. Not to mention the time off in the summer. And those teachers made a helluva lot more than I did as a paramedic. A teacher's life ain't BAD, not even close.

 

[BIG_MIKE2005]

I am a Special Education Teacher in Moore Schools. I can honestly say I wouldn't want to carry at school. I DO BELIEVE we should have access to weapons in the event these shootings or crimes happen. I just believe it would a severe distraction to my students learning, and unsafe in the instances that some of our kiddos get really mad and try to strip that gun from me. Working in Special Education I have a couple students who have become very violent when they didn't get what they want.

I can understand that. And to me thats the time the school would have to access which teachers would carry & why. Just as you wouldn't want to in your situation I'm sure there are just as many teachers who wouldnt want to carry for other reasons.

How about making it mandatory for a Principal to carry then? They have minimal interaction with students compared to teachers & they are supposed to respond to emergencies anyway. I know arming every single teacher is not goin to happen, but those in the position to carry & respond should in my opinion.

I read this today & it really rang true when you consider the efforts to keep kids safe from other things. give it a read, sorry if its a repost but I thought it was great reading material.

Active shooters in schools: The enemy is denial
Preventing juvenile mass murder in American schools is the job of police officers, school teachers, and concerned parents


“How many kids have been killed by school fire in all of North America in the past 50 years? Kids killed... school fire... North America... 50 years... How many? Zero. That’s right. Not one single kid has been killed by school fire anywhere in North America in the past half a century. Now, how many kids have been killed by school violence?”

So began an extraordinary daylong seminar presented by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, a Pulitzer Prize nominated author, West Point psychology professor, and without a doubt the world’s foremost expert on human aggression and violence. The event, hosted by the California Peace Officers Association, was held in the auditorium of a very large community church about 30 miles from San Francisco, and was attended by more than 250 police officers from around the region.

Grossman’s talk spanned myriad topics of vital importance to law enforcement, such as the use of autogenic breathing, surviving gunshot wounds, dealing with survivor guilt following a gun battle, and others. But violence among and against children was how the day began, and so I'll focus on that issue here.

“In 1998,” Grossman said, “school violence claimed what at the time was an all time record number of kids’ lives. In that year there were 35 dead and a quarter of a million serious injuries due to violence in the school. How many killed by fire that year? Zero. But we hear people say, ‘That’s the year Columbine happened, that’s an anomaly.’ Well, in 2004 we had a new all time record — 48 dead in the schools from violence. How many killed by fire that year? Zero. Let’s assign some grades. Put your teacher hat on and give out some grades. What kind of grade do you give the firefighter for keeping kids safe? An ‘A,’ right? Reluctantly, reluctantly, the cops give the firefighters an ‘A,’ right? Danged firefighters, they sleep ‘till they’re hungry and eat ‘till they’re tired. What grade do we get for keeping the kids safe from violence? Come on, what’s our grade? Needs improvement, right?”

Johnny Firefighter, A+ Student
“Why can’t we be like little Johnny Firefighter?” Grossman asked as he prowled the stage. “He’s our A+ student!”

He paused, briefly, and answered with a voice that blew through the hall like thunder, “Denial, denial, denial!”

Grossman commanded, “Look up at the ceiling! See all those sprinklers up there? They’re hard to spot — they’re painted black — but they’re there. While you’re looking, look at the material the ceiling is made of. You know that that stuff was selected because it’s fire-retardant. Hooah? Now look over there above the door — you see that fire exit sign? That’s not just any fire exit sign — that’s a ‘battery-backup-when-the-world-ends-it-will-still-be-lit’ fire exit sign. Hooah?”

Walking from the stage toward a nearby fire exit and exterior wall, Grossman slammed the palm of his hand against the wall and exclaimed, “Look at these wall boards! They were chosen because they’re what?! Fireproof or fire retardant, hooah? There is not one stinking thing in this room that will burn!”

Pointing around the room as he spoke, Grossman continued, “But you’ve still got those fire sprinklers, those fire exit signs, fire hydrants outside, and fire trucks nearby! Are these fire guys crazy? Are these fire guys paranoid? No! This fire guy is our A+ student! Because this fire guy has redundant, overlapping layers of protection, not a single kid has been killed by school fire in the last 50 years!

“But you try to prepare for violence — the thing much more likely to kill our kids in schools, the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill our kids in schools — and people think you’re paranoid. They think you’re crazy. ...They’re in denial.”

Teaching the Teachers
The challenge for law enforcement agencies and officers, then, is to overcome not only the attacks taking place in schools, but to first overcome the denial in the minds of mayors, city councils, school administrators, and parents. Grossman said that agencies and officers, although facing an uphill slog against the denial of the general public, must diligently work toward increasing understanding among the sheep that the wolves are coming for their children. Police officers must train and drill with teachers, not only so responding officers are intimately familiar with the facilities, but so that teachers know what they can do in the event of an attack.

“Come with me to the library at Columbine High School,” Grossman said. “The teacher in the library at Columbine High School spent her professional lifetime preparing for a fire, and we can all agree if there had been a fire in that library, that teacher would have instinctively, reflexively known what to do.

"But the thing most likely to kill her kids — the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill her kids, the teacher didn’t have a clue what to do. She should have put those kids in the librarian’s office but she didn’t know that. So she did the worst thing possible — she tried to secure her kids in an un-securable location. She told the kids to hide in the library — a library that has plate glass windows for walls. It’s an aquarium, it’s a fish bowl. She told the kids to hide in a fishbowl. What did those killers see? They saw targets. They saw fish in a fish bowl.”

Grossman said that if the school administrators at Columbine had spent a fraction of the money they’d spent preparing for fire doing lockdown drills and talking with local law enforcers about the violent dangers they face, the outcome that day may have been different.

Rhetorically he asked the assembled cops, “If somebody had spent five minutes telling that teacher what to do, do you think lives would have been saved at Columbine?”

Arming Campus Cops is Elementary
Nearly two years ago, I wrote an article called Arming campus cops is elementary. Not surprisingly, Grossman agrees with that hypothesis.

“Never call an unarmed man ‘security’,” Grossman said.

“Call him ‘run-like-hell-when-the-man-with-the-gun-shows-up’ but never call an unarmed man security.

"Imagine if someone said, ‘I want a trained fire professional on site. I want a fire hat, I want a fire uniform, I want a fire badge. But! No fire extinguishers in this building. No fire hoses. The hat, the badge, the uniform — that will keep us safe — but we have no need for fire extinguishers.’ Well, that would be insane. It is equally insane, delusional, legally liable, to say, ‘I want a trained security professional on site. I want a security hat, I want a security uniform, and I want a security badge, but I don’t want a gun.’ It’s not the hat, the uniform, or the badge. It’s the tools in the hands of a trained professional that keeps us safe.

“Our problem is not money,” said Grossman. “It is denial.”

Grossman said (and most cops agree) that many of the most important things we can do to protect our kids would cost us nothing or next-to-nothing.

Grossman’s Five D’s
Let’s contemplate the following outline and summary of Dave Grossman’s “Five D’s.” While you do, I encourage you to add in the comments area below your suggestions to address, and expand upon, these ideas.

1. Denial — Denial is the enemy and it has no survival value, said Grossman.

2. Deter — Put police officers in schools, because with just one officer assigned to a school, the probability of a mass murder in that school drops to almost zero

3. Detect — We’re talking about plain old fashioned police work here. The ultimate achievement for law enforcement is the crime that didn’t happen, so giving teachers and administrators regular access to cops is paramount.

4. Delay — Various simple mechanisms can be used by teachers and cops to put time and distance between the killers and the kids.

a. Ensure that the school/classroom have just a single point of entry. Simply locking the back door helps create a hard target.

Continue in the link

http://www.policeone.com/active-sho...ol-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/

 

[skyydiver]

I would like to know in what district a teacher with a benefits package is over 40K a year. Maybe with a masters plus 20 years experience but no not the average.

Plus hiring support staff for full time positions results in mandatory requirements as well regarding benefits and insurance.



I know more than a few who would not be what you classify as reluctant, or half ass guardians.

Glad you know some like that, hopefully I'm wrong. On the $$... I guess I could be wrong, but my gross pay is about equal to the value of my (state gov) health, disabiliy, retirement, and leave package. I don't make much, and ain't complaining...but I know the teachers' packages aren't that different from mine, and I think they start out grossing over 20K, no?

 

[vvvvvvv]

Teachers in Oklahoma making $40k+ with all costs? Sure... I got a friend who's been doing it, what 12-13 years? He is in the mid-30s I think, has some extra activity pay for driving bus and extracurricular functions. Add in his benefits, and I'd say he's over $40k, probably.

Minimum incl. benefits for 12 years experience is $36,800 w/ Bachelor's, $38,425 w/ Master's, and $40,475 w/ Doctorate. FWIW, minimum starting is $31,600, $32,800, and $34,000 respectively. Compensation cannot be decreased year-to-year without a proportional decrease in hours or duties required. Districts may implement "compensation schedules to reflect district policies and circumstances, including differential pay for different subject areas and special incentives for teachers in districts with specific geographical attributes. Districts may also adopt a salary schedule that provides additional compensation for achieving certain ratings under the Oklahoma Teacher and Leader Effectiveness Evaluation System".

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=89890

 

[DRC458]

I know the Enid Public Schools employed CLEET-certified security guards in the past, and I assume they still do (my kids have been out for a while). I don't know how many other people would be willing to do the same, but I would stand by my offer to get CLEET-certified at my own expense, and volunteer my time for the schools. No $40k, no $20K, no$10K. Every little bit would help and, I think with CLEET certification, school boards and administrations would be more likely to accept. What's the down side, seriously? I know it's not a total solution, but it's certainly better than sitting on our hands and doing nothing. And, I know some teachers who would never be comfortable carrying a firearm in the classroom for a variety of different reasons. I honestly believe some of them would retire before agreeing to receive training and start carrying in the school. I know others who would jump at the chance, and be damn good at it. I just don't believe there would be enough of them to go around. IMHO.

 

[mightymouse]

Son, 1927 has been over a long time now. If you can't see what's happened to our society in the past 20 years it's not my fault.

Got ya, Pops, I know what year it is. My point is that the halycon days of the mythical golden past are exactly that--mythical. Bad people have been doing bad things to good people since time out of mind. It ain't nothing new, and it did not all start in the past 20 years either.

 

[Bellboy]

I'll do what I can!!