A question for all Members of OSA

[ez bake]

So no one thinks arming every teacher is just as bad of a knee jerk reaction as starting up gun bans?

Some of you may be the greatest people in the world, but I don't want you armed around my kid unless I am around. Crazy people come from all corners. Crap happens in your daily lives. Thanks, but I think its a bad idea. How bout putting all that effort into beefing up mental health care... seeing what you can do to get PDs a little more in their budget so they can stand to throw a few more officers on school duty.

Hate to say it, but you guys are just as bad as the gun controlling left. So polar.

Since I agreed with your last post, I'm going to disagree with this one - proving that I'm not polar, I'm bi-polar

I think arming and properly training at least some staff at school has been discussed for quite a while. This is less of a knee-jerk reaction and more political pouncing but the difference between arming/training some staff (not necessarily teachers or all teachers) vs. gun control measures is that facts sort of back up arming someone at the schools where as all the facts/logic/reason directly contradicts gun control (because little-to-no gun control is actually bringing crime to all-time lows).

Let me ask you this Whitey - what facts/data/logic do you see that says no staff at schools should be armed (or is it just "All teachers" - this scares me as I know messed up people that are barely functional in society right now)?

If you at least agree that arming the right people at schools is beneficial, then I think there is some middle-ground that can at least take the vulnerability away from the factor - a lot of science has gone into determining that that vulnerability is the most appealing thing to someone hell-bent on hurting society as those folks typically don't want a fire-fight or any real resistance at all.

 

[KOPBET]

We can't get rid of bad teachers today.

How would we get rid of bad teachers with guns?

 

[WhiteyMacD]

Since I agreed with your last post, I'm going to disagree with this one - proving that I'm not polar, I'm bi-polar

I think arming and properly training at least some staff at school has been discussed for quite a while. This is less of a knee-jerk reaction and more political pouncing but the difference between arming/training some staff (not necessarily teachers or all teachers) is that facts sort of back up arming someone at the schools where as all the facts/logic/reason directly contradicts gun control (because little-to-no gun control is actually bringing crime to all-time lows).

Let me ask you this Whitey - what facts/data/logic do you see that says no staff at schools should be armed (or is it just "All teachers" - this scares me as I know messed up people that are barely functional in society right now)?

I'm ok with certain staff, but you damn well better be very thorough in how you pick. And I dont see why that resource cannot be just more PD presence. Same thing, more thorough and consistent training. (HOLY CRAP! Am I arguing for cops now? Whats happened since I left? Body Snatchers???)

And it is a knee jerk reaction. Gun bans have been discussed for awhile... doesnt mean the notion to instate them isnt knee jerk.

 

[ez bake]

I'm ok with certain staff, but you damn well better be very thorough in how you pick. And I dont see why that resource cannot be just more PD presence. Same thing, more thorough and consistent training.

And it is a knee jerk reaction. Gun bans have been discussed for awhile... doesnt mean the notion to instate them isnt knee jerk.

That's fair enough, but I guess my point is that one of those two options can actually prevent tragedies like Newtown, where as the other does little to nothing to make things better in any way.

And I completely agree with the staff selection - I don't think it should be just administrators, but I don't think it should be all teachers by any means. If we have testing/requirements/training-mandates that can filter out those who would do harm, then I'm actually ok with it (though opening up things like psych evals to teachers might cause a drop in employment based on some of the teachers I've met over the years).

 

[Old Fart]

There are roughly 500-550 school districts in OKlahoma. That's "districts" not schools. Just ONE (1) paid security person per "district" would cost the state upwards of $22 million dollars. Probably would need somewhere around 2000 (rough estimate) security people to put one per school, but probably closer to 3000 or more, which would cost the state $80 million dollars using the 40K a year scenario. Don't see that happening.

Still looks like the best opportunity is to look for employees willing to step up locally.

Just bumping this post up in case anyone missed. That's a lot of millions of $'s to hire up leo's.
Toss on top of these figures the state management of this new group of employees and I'd bet it would break the 100 million level fast.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

That's fair enough, but I guess my point is that one of those two options can actually prevent tragedies like Newtown, where as the other does little to nothing to make things better in any way.

And I completely agree with the staff selection - I don't think it should be just administrators, but I don't think it should be all teachers by any means. If we have testing/requirements/training-mandates that can filter out those who would do harm, then I'm actually ok with it (though opening up things like psych evals to teachers might cause a drop in employment based on some of the teachers I've met over the years).

Look, its just person for me. The only people I trust to be around my kids, armed, when Im not there is my blood, military or the cops. (and the later two I trust less than my blood, but certainly a lot more than any JQ Public). If you are going to train someone to be armed, then I want them to have no less training (and maintenance) than a police officer. So if you go that far... why not just utilize PD? Get more money in the departments so they can hire more.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

Just bumping this post up in case anyone missed. That's a lot of millions of $'s to hire up leo's.
Toss on top of these figures the state management of this new group of employees and I'd bet it would break the 100 million level fast.

In order for those "employees" to have my trust, they will need the training... STILL COSTING $22mill.

 

[ez bake]

In order for those "employees" to have my trust, they will need the training... STILL COSTING $22mill.

This is really my issue with talking about the cost-savings of using existing staff - training is going to be an issue and while more than a little bit of the training and needed dollars are going to be donated, there's still a ton of money to pour into getting all the necessary staff at every school properly trained to handle situations like taking on an active shooter - that's not normal CCW and you're good to go stuff - you're now protecting the lives of others - including children.

I'm still convinced that training/arming staff is a good alternative to doing nothing, but I hope this bill is crafted to account for all of the little things that need to be done in addition to just giving guns to staff.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

This is really my issue with talking about the cost-savings of using existing staff - training is going to be an issue and while more than a little bit of the training and needed dollars are going to be donated, there's still a ton of money to pour into getting all the necessary staff at every school properly trained to handle situations like taking on an active shooter - that's not normal CCW and you're good to go stuff - you're now protecting the lives of others - including children.

I'm still convinced that training/arming staff is a good alternative to doing nothing, but I hope this bill is crafted to account for all of the little things that need to be done in addition to just giving guns to staff.

And now we introduce yet another variable, politicians. Their abilities to craft decent bills is only surpassed by an emu's abilities to fly.

 

[HMFIC]

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