A question for all Members of OSA

[Old Fart]

I'd much rather have someone else doing security than me, but it won't cost $40 per teacher for training.
Go back and read my post you'll see it's closer to $80 million that $22 million for one security person per school.
That's all I was saying, . $22 million was for just one per district.
One per school would easily run past $80 million I suspect.
Add on a couple layers of state management and you'll blow right past $100 million.
So let's say the training cost $20K per teacher and we only select those who are willing and able.
Still a butt load of money, what ever solution they come up with it will cost.
That being said I personally will not put a price on our kids safety.
We just have to be ready to accept the financial burden.

 

[skyydiver]

I don't see a terribe argument here. I see a bunch of people trying to discuss the different options available.

I also want to clarify what I meant by armed teachers doing the protection racket "half assed." What I meant was, their primary job is to teach. Thus they cannot be in protective mode like a hired gun could, all the time. That's all. I'm for ANY practical way to get good, armed, adults who care about our kids in between them and a shooter.

I still think regular police would be easily distracted by drug busts, fights, and truancy. That is only my opinion. This thread seems very constructive to me.

 

[Old Fart]

Thus they cannot be in protective mode like a hired gun could, all the time.

I agree, but they are the last line of defense and that's all I was saying.

It is definately one screwed up mess and I find it difficult that we are even discussing it.

 

[pills510]

Regarding GTG's quote of the law... Am I reading this wrong, or does it basically say that no law needs to be passed and that individual School Boards can determine who can and cannot carry on the schools within their district?

Unfortunately he cited an outdated statute.
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69749



POSSESSION OF FIREARM ON SCHOOL PROPERTY

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to have in his or her possession on any public or private school property or while in any school bus or vehicle used by any school for transportation of students or teachers any firearm or weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title, except as provided in subsection C of this section or as otherwise authorized by law.

B. "School property" means any publicly or privately owned property held for purposes of elementary, secondary or vocational-technical education, and shall not include property owned by public school districts or private educational entities where such property is leased or rented to an individual or corporation and used for purposes other than educational.

C. Firearms and weapons are allowed on school property and deemed not in violation of subsection A of this section as follows:

1. A gun or knife designed for hunting or fishing purposes kept in a privately owned vehicle and properly displayed or stored as required by law, or a handgun carried in a vehicle pursuant to a valid handgun license authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, provided such vehicle containing said gun or knife is driven onto school property only to transport a student to and from school and such vehicle does not remain unattended on school property;

2. A gun or knife used for the purposes of participating in the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation certified hunter training education course or any other hunting, fishing, safety or firearms training courses, or a recognized firearms sports event, team shooting program or competition, or living history reenactment, provided the course or event is approved by the principal or chief administrator of the school where the course or event is offered, and provided the weapon is properly displayed or stored as required by law pending participation in the course, event, program or competition; and

3. Weapons in the possession of any peace officer or other person authorized by law to possess a weapon in the performance of their duties and responsibilities.

D. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony punishable by a fine not to exceed Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00), and imprisonment in the custody of the Department of Corrections for not more than two (2) years. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section after having been issued a handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall have the license permanently revoked and shall be liable for an administrative fine of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.

 

[skyydiver]

I agree, but they are the last line of defense and that's all I was saying.

It is definately one screwed up mess and I find it difficult that we are even discussing it.

Agreed!

 

[Okie4570]

So no one thinks arming every teacher is just as bad of a knee jerk reaction as starting up gun bans?

Some of you may be the greatest people in the world, but I don't want you armed around my kid unless I am around. Crazy people come from all corners. Crap happens in your daily lives. Thanks, but I think its a bad idea. How bout putting all that effort into beefing up mental health care... seeing what you can do to get PDs a little more in their budget so they can stand to throw a few more officers on school duty.

Hate to say it, but you guys are just as bad as the gun controlling left. So polar.

I respect your feelings about the situation. Consider the following questions:
1. Do you trust your childrens teachers?
2. Do you currently know there mental history?
3. Is there a process for detemining a teachers mental stability before hire?
4. Do you expect your teachers to treat your children as their own?
5. Has there been any "crazy teacher" involved in a mass shooting at school?
6. Are there any procedures in place to detect a mentally unstable teacher to prevent such a happening?
7. How do you know the the teacher down the hall doesn't have a restraining order out for her ex husband and fears for her life everyday, and has been carrying a firearm everyday? You don't, you just trust that it doesn't happen.
The point here is this..........parents trust their teachers. So why now, with the thought of adding a gun, are all teachers living on the edge of craziness, ready to snap, unable to multitask, unable use rational thought, unable to be trained to protect, and protect their students(your children) and themselves?
What has kept these so called "crazy teachers" in check for all these years? It's because they're not crazy, just dedicated and displaying love for their students. Nowhere in any of these legistlative proposals or where it's legal in TX, has it been mentioned that are "ALL" teachers will be required to carry.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

I respect your feelings about the situation. Consider the following questions:
1. Do you trust your childrens teachers? No
2. Do you currently know there mental history?No
3. Is there a process for detemining a teachers mental stability before hire?Maybe, but is it certain. As I stated, things change in your life. Some teachers start as soon as they graduate with a degree in education and get certified. Thats what, early 20s? Some mental disorders do not manifest until mid 20s to mid 30s. If there are processes, are they ongoing and regularly performed?
4. Do you expect your teachers to treat your children as their own?Yes. But this isnt always the case.
5. Has there been any "crazy teacher" involved in a mass shooting at school? Mass shooting? No idea, but because it hasnt happened doesnt rule out the possibility
6. Are there any procedures in place to detect a mentally unstable teacher to prevent such a happening?Same answer as 3
7. How do you know the the teacher down the hall doesn't have a restraining order out for her ex husband and fears for her life everyday, and has been carrying a firearm everyday? You don't, you just trust that it doesn't happen. Then she is doing so illegally.
The point here is this..........parents trust their teachers. I'm a parent, I dont really trust anyone, fully, with my kids outside of my wife, and my parents.So why now, with the thought of adding a gun, are all teachers living on the edge of craziness, ready to snap, unable to multitask, unable use rational thought, unable to be trained to protect, and protect their students(your children) and themselves?
What has kept these so called "crazy teachers" in check for all these years? Dedication and love for their students. Nowhere in any of these legistlative proposals or where it's legal in TX, has it been mentioned that are "ALL" teachers will be required to carry.

Comments in bold.

 

[Okie4570]

I respect your answers, but as you said above everything is a possiblity.......maybe even a teacher saving your childrens life. What are your thoughts on the last question, the one I find most interesting about the whole teacher/firearm debate?

Edit: Added question that I was referring to.

So why now, with the thought of adding a gun, are all teachers living on the edge of craziness, ready to snap, unable to multitask, unable use rational thought, unable to be trained to protect, and protect their students(your children) and themselves?

 

[Billybob]

Does anybody remember that a teacher in the OKC. area this year passed out in class and meth was found in her purse?
Does anybody remember the Crain case getting ready to go to trial where a whole 3rd. grade class might have to repeat the year because so much time was spent making kiddie porn in the classroom?
The Yerton sex abuse case and administrators covering it up.
The teacher at Skelly Elementary in Tulsa losing students from her class, twice.
How many teachers have been caught having sex with students?

 

[Old Fart]

Alright we've officially moved from protecting from outside intruders to teacher bashing. Something I can really enjoy.