Beretta M9/92F: OSA's Opinion

[WTJ]

Wasn't getting excited. Sorry, didn't mean to jack this whole thread up by posting facts

No worries. Hell, I'll use whatever I can find in a pinch. Never understood why some folks needs to 'sell' their choice to someone else. LOL.

Now I will REALLY stir it: Not a Glock fan, but if it's what ya got........

 

[NikatKimber]

No worries. Hell, I'll use whatever I can find in a pinch. Never understood why some folks needs to 'sell' their choice to someone else. LOL.

Now I will REALLY stir it: Not a Glock fan, but if it's what ya got........

...might as well throw it at someone?

 

[MoBoost]

No worries. Hell, I'll use whatever I can find in a pinch. Never understood why some folks needs to 'sell' their choice to someone else. LOL.

Now I will REALLY stir it: Not a Glock fan, but if it's what ya got........

I guess, trying to make the world a better place. Of course everybody is entitled to their choices and opinions, BUT it doesn't negate the fact that there are RIGHT and WRONG choices. For some reason people often don't want to listen to, well, reason in somehow fear of loosing their liberty of choice.

In 1870 - 45 was a right choice, with 700fps limit the bigger chunk of led was the only way to get the wounding delivered. Of course "knocking over the rider and horse" stories keep being repeated, even 150 years ago...

Since development of smokeless powder and semi-automatics - 45 became a WRONG choice - smaller bullet delivers more capacity AND more penetration especially through hard obstacles (like clothing and bones). The RIGHT question in 21st century is how small can we go.

92fs is not perfect and new generation of pistols will deliver more killing capability, but disregarding it as not an "excellent fighting pistol" is plain ignorant.

P.S. I don't own one, and see no reason for a full size pistol for CCL - if I were to complete however - it would be my first choice.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Never said I didnt like the 9x19.... but what savings you may have in weight have never reconciled that fact that 9x19 limits a shooter to the 147 grain bullet-maximum.

40 SW is not the end-all... but sending a (.40) 185 grain bullet just seems more economical to me... and a (.45) 230 grain seems even better.

For the record... I would not hesitate to tote a M9 series of pistols... but I get to choose the bullet if that's the deal.

If I was going to commit to 9 Luger for everyday carry.... a smaller gun than a M9 (think Kahr, G 26, SW 3913 or one of several others that come to mind) would be a better choice. As a service weapon... the M9 is much easier to learn (feild strip etc) than the 1911

 

[MoBoost]

Never said I didnt like the 9x19.... but what savings you may have in weight have never reconciled that fact that 9x19 limits a shooter to the 147 grain bullet-maximum.

40 SW is not the end-all... but sending a (.40) 185 grain bullet just seems more economical to me... and a (.45) 230 grain seems even better.

I'm sorry - your logic inevitably leads to throwing the whole pistol - more grains per "shot". There is no evidence of projectile's weight making difference, I'm talking about as in mathematical zero.

Placement Penetration Construction

 

[RKM]

Il Beretta sembra essere una bella pistola. Precise, affidabili ed economici per scattare.

 

[Werewolf]

I'm sorry - your logic inevitably leads to throwing the whole pistol - more grains per "shot". There is no evidence of projectile's weight making difference, I'm talking about as in mathematical zero.

Placement Penetration Construction

Which of course is exactly why the US Army chose to switch to the .45ACP over the 38 they were using in the Phillipines.

You are right about about shot placement. All things being equal that is what counts. If we could all shoot the eye out of a gnat flying around randomly at 100 yards then all any of us would need would be a 22.

But we all can't do that. Add in the stress of being in a life and death situation and the stress inhibiting factors that go with it and the whole shot placement thing goes right out the proverbial window.

As for "inevitably throwing the whole pistol" - nice try but argumentum ad infinitum just don't hunt here.

If it goes in it's gonna do damage and a bigger hole has to do more damage.

Check out this table:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

A 115 gr +P 9mm load at 1321FPS generates 454 Ft/lbs of energy and 14.54" of penetration in ballistic gel.Every single +P 45 ACP load blows the 9mm away just using penetration as a spec. Every single one of the +P loads generates more ft/lbs of force. 2 of the 3 +P loads have a higher one shot stop %. Many of the non +P loads are better than the 9mm +P. And heck even the Federal Hydrashock load with less penetration and less ft/lbs of force than the 9mm +P load has a higher % one stop shot number.

In any confrontation - Yes penetration counts. Yes placement counts. As for construction - unless you choose to carry a POS then that's not gonna be a factor very often.

But just based on the data from the Chuck Hawkes site I'll have to stick with the heavier and bigger is better philosophy.

 

[MoBoost]

1) Construction - of projectile, not firearm
2) Jellyfish are made from gel like substance - humans wear clothes and have bones - check hard obstacle penetration.
3) 5" vs 3.5" / 4.0" barrel just somehow seems slip through every time.
4) FT/LBS - higher number only mean more RECOIL, on receiving end placement/construction take over resulting in penetration, yaw, etc ... pistol rounds just don't have enough "shock" power to matter
5) You want to stop the attack - not hurt the BG. The fact that the bad guy bleeds out in 8 hours from 9mm hole, vs 6 hours form 11mm hole mean again mathematical zero "now". Shoot till they drop - more rounds more shooting. Thinking otherwise leads to tragedies we hear about over and over.
6) One shot stop is a myth. (yeah, it's a full stop, I have nothing to add)

 

[Ignored Member]

Wasn't this thread about a Beretta 92fs pistol and not the ammo it shoots??
I seem to remember that being said a couple times already in this thread, but the discussion continues about the ammo and not the gun itself.

 

[WTJ]

I guess, trying to make the world a better place. Of course everybody is entitled to their choices and opinions, BUT it doesn't negate the fact that there are RIGHT and WRONG choices. For some reason people often don't want to listen to, well, reason in somehow fear of loosing their liberty of choice.

In 1870 - 45 was a right choice, with 700fps limit the bigger chunk of led was the only way to get the wounding delivered. Of course "knocking over the rider and horse" stories keep being repeated, even 150 years ago...

Since development of smokeless powder and semi-automatics - 45 became a WRONG choice - smaller bullet delivers more capacity AND more penetration especially through hard obstacles (like clothing and bones). The RIGHT question in 21st century is how small can we go.

92fs is not perfect and new generation of pistols will deliver more killing capability, but disregarding it as not an "excellent fighting pistol" is plain ignorant.

P.S. I don't own one, and see no reason for a full size pistol for CCL - if I were to complete however - it would be my first choice.

Weeeeeell, I may be ignorant, but I am smart enough to READ the choices of the OPs OPINION poll. There is a school of thought that tells me to beware all do-gooders. I have to say that I am monumentally disinterested in your opinion of my opinion. I never said the M9/92F was a bad choice. I stated it was not my first choice. If you think smaller is better, then try a .177 CO2 pellet gun if you like, it is your decision. 45 ACP is a better choice than a stick or rock, and so is 9x19.

Wow. Stay classy, bro.