Bumpfire stock has been released for AK47, 74 and Saiga shotgun.

[flatwins]

.....and scene.

 

[Honeybee]

Did you bother asking the ATF if you could build these things or did you just imply that because there might be a loophole that you could jump through it until caught?

 

[Bill Akins]

Since I started this thread, I'll say if I wanted to make something I'd do whatever the heck i wanted to.
I'll personally never buy a bumpfire stock but find them fascinating. I can bump fire without some gadget stocks.
Bill, I'm sorry you got screwed on the first stock, but since then others have made bumpfire stocks.
It's an extremely simple design. Good luck with your ventures.

Yes Peanut, some others have made them, and some of those making them were and still are infringing on mine and now Fostech Outdoor's patent.
I thought once I posted the law direct from the U.S. patent office website, that the issue of making and using (even for own personal use) something that is patented by someone else, would be understood by members here. Someone could certainly do "whatever the heck they wanted", even if it was illegal patent infringement, but realize whoever does patent infringement does so at their own legal and financial peril.

And in response to "Mr Shooter", it is hardly a compliment that Super Dave would tell a patent holder that he intended to make copies of the person's patented device. That was not a compliment, it is indeed a slap in the face insult. Plus....IT'S ILLEGAL.
Super Dave knows exactly what he is doing. He is trying to get my goat and insult me. He did the same thing at this link to this post of his at the Saiga firearms forum.....

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/73523-new-bumpski-bumpfire-stock-for-the-ak47ak74saiga12-debuted-today/page__st__30__p__720813#entry720813

Super Dave now has mine and Fostech Outdoors attention since that is obviously what he wanted. If he posts pictures or videos of his infringement of my former and now Fostech Outdoor's patent as he threatened to do, he may get more attention that he probably would wish he didn't have.

After reading the section on patent infringement law direct from the U.S. Patent Office's website, wherein it specifically says it is illegal to "make or use" a device patented by someone else, I would think this should be clear to everyone here now. Does anyone not understand that clear language of that law? Does anyone after reading that still think it is legal for them to make or use an infringing copy for their own use? Or does anyone here advocate other members here breaking the law? I hope not and hope my posting of the law direct from the USPTO website has cleared up any misunderstandings members here may have had.




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[Bill Akins]

Did you bother asking the ATF if you could build these things or did you just imply that because there might be a loophole that you could jump through it until caught?

Well back in 2004 I got two separate approval letters from the BATFE that said my one shot per trigger pull spring operated Akins Accelerator stocks were legal. Then the BATFE two years later rescinded those two written approval letters in spite of nothing in the congressional law of the NFA changing. So even on my original spring operated stocks I did due diligence Honeybee.

Now concerning the isometric tension, exclusively human muscle powered operated bumpfire stocks also covered under my original patent......
Go to Fostech Outdoors website that I posted the link to earlier. Look on the left side of the page and click on "approval letters". There are four BATFE approval letters there for isometric operation bump fire stocks. So it is clear that BATFE has on four occasions given their written "approval" (which is simply their opinion and is not law) that isometric operation bumpfire stocks do not violate the national firearms act (NFA).

Understand that a BATFE classification letter, otherwise known by many as an "approval letter" is not law. It is simply an opinion of a government agency such as the BATFE. Again, it is not law. The BATFE does not make federal law, congress does. The BATFE is supposed to follow congressional law. All too often the BATFE forgets that.

You do not have to even get a BATFE approval letter if you know you are not breaking the law. It may be advisable to do so but it is not required nor is the "approval letter" law. It says this right in the BATFE handbook that you can look up and read at the BATFE website. Further without anything in the law changing, BATFE has done 180 degree flip flops on previous approval letters they have given to many manufacturers, wherein the BATFE first approved their submissions and then later without anything in the law changing, just arbitrarily changed their mind. The law didn't change. Only some anti-2nd amendment bureaucrat at BATFE changed his mind and directed their technical branch to change their "approval"/opinion. This has happened to not only myself, but to scores of other manufacturers. So a BATFE so called "approval letter" is nothing really but a worthless OPINION of the BATFE that they change their minds on whenever they have the whim to do so. They are essentially worthless. Unfortunately, I understand that yourself and some others may not realize what I have just told you. But I have been there and I know of what I speak.

At any rate, as I said earlier, go to to the Fostech Outdoors website and read the four BATFE so called "approval letters" there to set your mind at ease.


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[Bill Akins]

To get back on a positive track on this subject.....

I spoke to the Fostech marketing and sales director Judd this evening. The AA2 (for "Akins Accelerator version 2") is coming out next week or so. Fostech Outdoors wanted to pay homage to my original stock's name even though they now own my patent and the product as well, they still wanted to show respect to my original stock, very nice of them to do that even though I am not personally in the Fostech corporation.

So the springless, isometric, bumpfire AA2 stocks for the Ruger 10/22 should be on the Fostech Outdoors website by next week. They are retro-fits of my original accelerator stocks that have been made to operate isometrically without the use of any springs. They work great and I have personally fired them because I initiated retro-fitting them before I sold them and my patent to Fostech Outdoors whereupon Fostech tweaked them still further to where they operate as well as my old version that used a spring did. These will be very economical to shoot obviously using the .22 LR cartridge.

Plus Fostech Outdoors will later offer as an accessory, a perforated full length barrel shroud design that makes the 10/22 look like a sub gun and allows the sights to remain stationary on the stationary barrel shroud while the barrel reciprocates within the stationary shroud. That will also allow the mounting of other type of sights to the shroud without impeding the reciprocation of the barrel.

If you pop a drum mag into it with that perforated barrel shroud, it looks something like a Russian PPSH or actually more correctly looks like the Italian Beretta sub gun from WW2.

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[Maverick21]

Regardless of the pissing match back and forth, a 10/22 bump fire type stock would be awesome. Sounds like itd be finicky given the high cap mags available (in my experience at least), but it sounds like a great design idea Bill so long as the price is reasonable. And I can't really stress the last point enough. Doubt many people here would shell out $400+ for bump fire. Just some free market research for ya. Keep at it.

 

[Bill Akins]

Regardless of the pissing match back and forth, a 10/22 bump fire type stock would be awesome. Sounds like itd be finicky given the high cap mags available (in my experience at least), but it sounds like a great design idea Bill so long as the price is reasonable. And I can't really stress the last point enough. Doubt many people here would shell out $400+ for bump fire. Just some free market research for ya. Keep at it.

Thanks for that feedback Maverick21 and the supporting sentiment. I appreciate that very much, and I will "keep at it".

I spoke with the director of sales and marketing of Fostech Outdoors this evening. He told me that the AA2 bumpfire stock for the Ruger 10/22 will run somewhere in the neighborhood of $625.00 The reason for that is because Fostech is including a $289.00 (their cost) Kidd's trigger pack with each stock. The Kidd's trigger pack enables the trigger to have a very light trigger pull in ounces rather than pounds. This is necessary for consistent operation. Yes the stock can be operated without it and on a well used 10/22 of mine with a Volquartson hammer I installed, I have had good results with the new AA2 stock. But that is with a well worn in 10/22 that I have put the Volquartson hammer in and worked on the sear further myself to even lighten the trigger pull more.

So that is not indicative of most shooters stiff factory Ruger triggers which will probably not work as consistently without the Kidd's trigger pack and Fostech will not sell the AA2 stock without the Kidd's trigger pack because they don't want customers complaining that their stock is not consistent in operation because of that particular customer's terrible factory trigger pull. With the Kidd's trigger pack installed, it makes the stock as consistent as my excellent consistency old spring operated Akins Accelerators were. When you compare an $8000.00 Norrel 10/22 full auto trigger pack to $625.00 total for the AA2 bumpfire stock with the $289.00 Kidd's trigger pack included, the difference should be obvious.

Plus there will be a further savings for the customer over the long term due to the low cost of operating the AA2 stock with .22 LR ammo. And with the Kidd's trigger pack the AA2 operates consistently well with even the cheapest of .22 LR ammo. If the $625.00 price seems too expensive to some people, then it is not a product for them and hopefully instead of complaining about the price even though they have no intention of buying, they will simply remain silent and not buy one. Or they can go to the Mercedes dealership without any intention to buy and complain to the dealership that the cars cost too much.
Of course I'm not saying that is you Maverick21, but that does describe some people. The bottom line is that many people are simply not the market for a bumpfire stock. No doubt if they sold for $100.00 or even $50.00 someone would complain that they cost too much. So does full auto or a new Mercedes, but I don't complain about it, I just don't buy it. But there are those who do and will buy and they are the market. Not everyone owns a Mercedes just as not everyone owns full auto. But there are those who do. No matter what the complaints, there is no doubt that $625.00 is not really that much to pay for a SIMULATED full auto, semi-auto Ruger 10/22 bumpfire stock, that allows one to fire just as fast as a machine gun while it isn't a machine gun.


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[been]

the posts in this thread are tooo long.....I am done reading it.

been out!

 

[flatwins]

the posts in this thread are tooo long.....I am done reading it.

been out!

Roger that, Houston. But it could be made into a drinking game: Every time you are reading along and see "Fostech Outdoors", drink.

 

[been]

Roger that, Houston. But it could be made into a drinking game: Every time you are reading along and see "Fostech Outdoors", drink.

hahah! i guess its never too early to start.