Your girlfriend should report this instructor to cleet and the OSBI for not following the requirements of the law.
Your girlfriend should report this instructor to cleet and the OSBI for not following the requirements of the law.
Ronin, could you provide me with the e-mail address for David Boren so I can submit my letter requesting permission to carry on campus?
Here is a copy of my letter:
bob
Here is a copy of my letter:
bob
Giving a non elected person authority to deny my right is wrong in the first place.
Second, if I was going to ask the president, I wouldn't tell their secretary what I was asking about. So just because the secretary didn't know of anyone does NOT mean no one ever asked.
Then you'd have to deal with the same blood in the streets scenarios those poor non-campus cops see every day out of us untrained boobs. BS argument.
I'd like a list of these agencies that require their officers to qualify more than once during their entire time as a commisioned officer.
I know for a fact that several people have petitioned TU's president with no result.
The arrogance is astounding. This attitude some cops have (thinking that they are the only ones who are "professional" enough to be trusted with the responsibility of carrying a gun, or of even owning certain types of guns) is why so many gun owners have a generally negative view toward police. Its the same attitude that the British government had toward the American colonists in 1775 when the Secretary of State ordered General Gage to disarm the militias in the Massachusetts Bay Colony.
The ability to carry a weapon with you in public is part of our natural, inalienable right to self defense, which is derived from our fundamental right to live. It is outrageous to me that the state demands that I get their permission to exercise this right in the first place, and doubly outrageous that they try to bar me from doing it in a gun-free, yet lightly-protected area like a college campus.
Guys, this sounds like a situation where a little "civil disobedience" is called for: Disobeying an bad law in the name of liberty. If you were to stick a pistol in your backpack, in the little pouch on the back that you never use anyway, who would be the wiser? The only way anybody would ever find out is if you used it to try to stop a school shooting or a rape or something like that, in which case you would be a hero. You might get kicked out of the University (if you're a student), but wouldn't it be worth it?
As for the criminal penalty, it is just a misdemeanor to violate the CCW law. At most you might have to spend a night in jail before you bail out, and you'd end up paying a fine of a few hundred bucks. Actually, you'd probably get a deferred sentence, if you don't have a previous record. It CAN carry jail time, but it is rarely imposed on people who don't have records, and almost surely wouldn't be imposed by the judge if you stopped a horrible crime. This is assuming that you got convicted in the first place... if you exercised your right to a jury trial, you would have good odds of a jury "nullifying," e.g. refusing to find a guilty verdict even if the facts support it -- you are likely to get at least one person to hang the jury. The DA would be champing at the bit to get you to plea bargain for a very light penalty in a situation like that (where you're a sympathetic defendant).
When you have to make the decision whether to obey a bad law, you always have to weigh the magnitude of the possible benefits against the magnitude of the possible negative consequences of getting caught, both multiplied by the probability of them occurring. There is a very low probability of ever having to use your pistol in self defense, but if the circumstances ever arose, the benefit would be HUGE... you could save multiple lives, including your own, or stop a horrible crime like a rape. Now compare the downsides... first, there is almost no chance of getting caught if you carry on campus (as long as you're smart about it and don't go around bragging to your buddies about what you're doing), and even if you do get caught, the penalty isn't really all that bad.
I hope I'm not running afoul of any forum rules by suggesting civil disobedience. It is an American tradition, after all, going back to the Boston Tea Party and the burning of the Gaspee!
The ability to carry a weapon with you in public is part of our natural, inalienable right to self defense, which is derived from our fundamental right to live. It is outrageous to me that the state demands that I get their permission to exercise this right in the first place, and doubly outrageous that they try to bar me from doing it in a gun-free, yet lightly-protected area like a college campus.
Guys, this sounds like a situation where a little "civil disobedience" is called for: Disobeying an bad law in the name of liberty. If you were to stick a pistol in your backpack, in the little pouch on the back that you never use anyway, who would be the wiser? The only way anybody would ever find out is if you used it to try to stop a school shooting or a rape or something like that, in which case you would be a hero. You might get kicked out of the University (if you're a student), but wouldn't it be worth it?
As for the criminal penalty, it is just a misdemeanor to violate the CCW law. At most you might have to spend a night in jail before you bail out, and you'd end up paying a fine of a few hundred bucks. Actually, you'd probably get a deferred sentence, if you don't have a previous record. It CAN carry jail time, but it is rarely imposed on people who don't have records, and almost surely wouldn't be imposed by the judge if you stopped a horrible crime. This is assuming that you got convicted in the first place... if you exercised your right to a jury trial, you would have good odds of a jury "nullifying," e.g. refusing to find a guilty verdict even if the facts support it -- you are likely to get at least one person to hang the jury. The DA would be champing at the bit to get you to plea bargain for a very light penalty in a situation like that (where you're a sympathetic defendant).
When you have to make the decision whether to obey a bad law, you always have to weigh the magnitude of the possible benefits against the magnitude of the possible negative consequences of getting caught, both multiplied by the probability of them occurring. There is a very low probability of ever having to use your pistol in self defense, but if the circumstances ever arose, the benefit would be HUGE... you could save multiple lives, including your own, or stop a horrible crime like a rape. Now compare the downsides... first, there is almost no chance of getting caught if you carry on campus (as long as you're smart about it and don't go around bragging to your buddies about what you're doing), and even if you do get caught, the penalty isn't really all that bad.
I hope I'm not running afoul of any forum rules by suggesting civil disobedience. It is an American tradition, after all, going back to the Boston Tea Party and the burning of the Gaspee!
That list would be quite long, as it would contain every law enforcement agency in the state. Every agency I have worked around has had to qualify at a minimum, of once a year. Many qualify every six months.
Correct me if Im wrong but this is NEW to most LEO agencies! It was not but a few years ago that once you qualified you did not have to agin!!
I've trained and trained with several LEO's and they are just like other people some are Great shooters, they put in the time and effort and some you hope set behind a desk. Much like average Joe's some are great shooters and gun handlers, and some not so much.
This is one of those area's that Im really uncomfortable with.
As a Trainer I think the shooting part of the SDA is way to easy!!!! It should be scored in order to pass, and you should have to do a Qual once a year.
And the Training should be longer and cover more areas.
But with this you should get to carry every place an LEO can.
On the other hand, I think Any restriction on Carry or firearm ownership is a violation of our 2nd admin rights.
Finally, it's great to hear from someone involved with LE that gets it. Kudos to you prdator. Being an EM director I understand what training is all about but I'm not real sure what LE call's "Proper Training". I've been handling firearms for 40 years and can exhibit proper handling and efficiency as well as anybody sometimes even better and I have never trained with LE. Also who is the one to decide the definition of "Proper Training"? If it means getting on the range on a weekend with a bunch of officers and getting shot in the butt I ain't gonna do it, and I say that because it has happened in my county. At 51yrs old my butt is the only thing left in one piece and I want to keep it that way.
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