Campus firearm bill sees new life, again

[Spiff]

First off I want to state that I am a Police Officer at a University in Oklahoma and I am an NRA certified pistol instructor. I dont have a problem with properly trained, competent people with a valid concealed carry permit carrying concealed firearms on campus. Thats where the issue is. Oklahoma concealed carry training lacks a lot. My girlfriend took the class last year. It lasted about 3 hours, no targets to shoot at, the instructor said load the gun, point it in a safe direction, and pull the trigger a few times. That was it! If this law passes thats the level of trained people I will have to deal with.

Currently there is already a provision in the law to allow a person to carry a concealed weapon on a university campus.

Title 21, Chapter 53, Section 1277, Paragraph D:

D. No person in possession of any concealed handgun pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall be authorized to carry the handgun into or upon any college or university property, except as provided in this subsection. For purposes of this subsection, the following property shall not be construed as prohibited for persons having a valid concealed handgun license:

3. Any property authorized by the written consent of the college or university president, provided the written consent is carried with the handgun and the valid concealed handgun license while on college or university property.

In the five years I have been employed with the University you know how many people have gone to the Presidents office and asked? None. I know because I asked his secretary.

Maybe more people should just try to follow the rules that are already in place instead of having to make new rules.

Yeah, about that.

To the OSU Campus,

The Oklahoma House of Representatives passed House Bill 2513 last week which allows certain persons to carry concealed weapons on Oklahoma’s College campuses. While we all share the concern for the safety of all of our campuses, this proposal is fraught with unnecessary risks.

We all honor our veterans and members of the armed services, but they are not immune from the few who act irrationally. And the training the bill requires for others is minimal. In the end, additional weapons on campus only increase the risk of a weapon in the possession of the wrong person. Moreover, there is no assurance that guns left in dorm rooms or in lockers by approved carriers would not fall into the hands of others.

This is not the solution. If it were, similar authorization should be allowed in the State Capitol as well as state, county and municipal offices. Tragedies happen in all areas of society, not just on college campuses. Witness the events at Tinker, post offices and other public places.

What we need is more training and better distribution of our security services, unique alarm systems on campus, increased counseling and training of our students, faculty and staff. We need more thought and discussion on the steps necessary to make our campuses safer. We must all become more aware of our surroundings; know what to look for, how to react, and utilize new and more effective means of sounding alarms. Higher education, through the Governor’s Campus Life and Safety and Security Task Force, has developed a comprehensive statewide plan that is an excellent starting point. We don’t believe increasing the number of guns on campus is the answer.

Let’s all take a deep breath, study this critical issue and come to a reasonable consensus. Require an interim study. Allow the Task Force recommendations to be considered and implemented. We owe as much to our best and brightest.

Burns Hargis

And as for being profeshunall enuff -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmRN00KbCr8

 

[poopgiggle]

If "sport shooter" means someone who regularly shoots for recreation then I'll completely disagree with this statement.

The majority of people I see with CCW's never shoot their guns, never practice, and rarely check the condition of their firearm.

The people that shoot or train regularly, whether they are police or CCW holders, are a rare group.

Michael Brown

Dammit, quit chipping away at my faith in humanity.

I just assumed that people who bothered to get a CCW permit cared enough to practice. I'm disappointed that my assumption was unfounded.

 

[1eye]

Burns Hargis needs to do the same thing most educated dumb donkeys need to do, get his head out of his armpit and maybe he could actually sound more intelligent. You can't get a CC license before you turn 21 and most students graduate at 22. Add the age limit and the almost six monthes it takes to get the permit and most of those students are gone. The increase will come from educators and folks like you and me. How does he figure that to be an increased danger. Wait on the task force, HAHAHA I am sure it is made up of educated dumb donkeys and the perfectly trained folks that think in the same ignorant manner that he does. I am going to have to try and not read this thread very often as it fuels my passion to insult the arrogant, egotistical and inconsiderate morons that want to continue to turn us into victims to be easily preyed on.

 

[blutch]

What do you all think about a university allowing certain faculty and staff members who have their CCL and additional training to carry on campus? I would feel better if there were two or three in each building.

Virginia Tech could have turned out considerably differently if that were the case.

B

 

[okietool]

That bill kind of confirmed Burns Hargis standing as an academic first and conservative second if you ask me.

 

[foghorn918]

........
This is one of those area's that Im really uncomfortable with.
As a Trainer I think the shooting part of the SDA is way to easy!!!! It should be scored in order to pass, and you should have to do a Qual once a year.
And the Training should be longer and cover more areas...........

I agree that there should be more to the live fire portion of the Oklahoma CCL. We spent 6 hours on the saftey and the law, but next to nothing actually handling our firearm and shooting.

The lady next to me during our shooting portion at my CC class probably only put 7 hits out of 50 on her target..... very scary. If there were a qualifying score to pass, even once a year, I suspect CCL holders would practice more often so they would be more proficient and be ready for the once a year qualification.

 

[1eye]

I agree also that there should be something of a requirement for effeciency with the firearm. I don't know how you could consider your self as a safe handler if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. From my perspective I can't say that ccw holders don't practice enough. I am fortunate enough to have the property to practice on and all the people I know in my area get out and shoot year round as the weather permits. I know that living in the metro areas handicaps you all because of range availability. Would be really nice of the LE agencies to open thier outdoor ranges one day a month for public use. After all, they complain about our lack of training and at the same time have the means to to help solve the problem. They do have some fine facilities paid for with your tax dollars. I wish we could get our government agencies to be more of a partner with us, after all we are all in this thing together.

 

[abajaj11]

I agree that there should be more to the live fire portion of the Oklahoma CCL. We spent 6 hours on the saftey and the law, but next to nothing actually handling our firearm and shooting.

The lady next to me during our shooting portion at my CC class probably only put 7 hits out of 50 on her target..... very scary. If there were a qualifying score to pass, even once a year, I suspect CCL holders would practice more often so they would be more proficient and be ready for the once a year qualification.

Agreed. Just as soon as we can all agree that citizens need to pass a qualifying exam every year before they can write, or speak in public. And achieve a minimum score.

 

[Flyboy]

Also, I wasnt trying to say I am against concealed carry on campus. I was saying if a person goes thru the required training to get a concealed carry license they should at least try to use the system that is in place while waiting for the system to hopefully change.

I suspect that the reason more people don't ask is because the "no" is a foregone conclusion, and it would draw attention to themselves, making it more difficult to do this:

My point in all this is that I am all for people exercising there right to keep and bear arms. Like the law says, concealed from detection. If you arent breaking the law and I dont have a reason to come in contact with you, how would I ever know you have a properly concealed weapon for personal protection.

I suspect there are far more people in the second group than any of us realizes.

As for these:

Wife carried her concealed handgun onto campus to kill husband because he filed for divorce.

Student from another college carried concealed handguns onto campus to "get even" with some of our students for something that happened off campus at a bar.

I have personally arrested four DUI's and six intoxicated passengers that were carrying concealed handguns.

Oh how about the 10 to 12 loaded handguns we have found laying in the seats of unoccupied cars.....right next to the marijuana pipes.

Given the situations, do you really think the lack of a permission slip would have stopped them from doing what they did (hint: no, it didn't). People who choose to commit crimes aren't going to be deterred because they can't get permission to commit, no matter how many times liberal idiots say otherwise.

 

[poopgiggle]

Agreed. Just as soon as we can all agree that citizens need to pass a qualifying exam every year before they can write, or speak in public. And achieve a minimum score.

This is really the heart of it. Would it be awesome if all CCW holders could shoot well enough to compete in IDPA/IPSC? Yeah. It would also be awesome if all Americans had degrees in economics and political science so they could see through the BS and be more educated voters. The problem is that not everyone does, but voting is their Constitutional right and you can't make them pass any kind of test to exercise it.

Assuming that a right to CCW is protected by the 2nd Amendment, you can't keep people who can't shoot from carrying, just like you can't keep idiots from voting.

E: This isn't meant to imply that people who aren't formally educated are stupid. I just used that as an example of a restriction of Constitutional rights to some "better" class.