Campus firearm bill sees new life, again

[doctorjj]

As for people exercising their right to carry weapons on campus, here are some I have dealt with:

Wife carried her concealed handgun onto campus to kill husband because he filed for divorce.

Student from another college carried concealed handguns onto campus to "get even" with some of our students for something that happened off campus at a bar.

I have personally arrested four DUI's and six intoxicated passengers that were carrying concealed handguns.

Oh how about the 10 to 12 loaded handguns we have found laying in the seats of unoccupied cars.....right next to the marijuana pipes.

Exactly. Laws against those exact scenarios would have obviously prevented them from occurring. Oh wait...

 

[Michael Brown]

Dammit, quit chipping away at my faith in humanity.

I just assumed that people who bothered to get a CCW permit cared enough to practice. I'm disappointed that my assumption was unfounded.

My bad.

Michael Brown

 

[Stephen Cue]

My bad.

Michael Brown

Are you saying that the 8 hours in a CCW course is not enough?

Who are you, some sort of expert in self-defense?


.
.
.
.
.

 

[Gideon]

This is one of those area's that Im really uncomfortable with.
As a Trainer I think the shooting part of the SDA is way to easy!!!! It should be scored in order to pass, and you should have to do a Qual once a year.
And the Training should be longer and cover more areas.
But with this you should get to carry every place an LEO can.

On the other hand, I think Any restriction on Carry or firearm ownership is a violation of our 2nd admin rights.

THIS...

While I'm glad we have laws like the SDA here in Oklahoma, I'd rather have something like a Civilian Deputation act, wherein we grant civilians willing to commit to certain levels of training and responsibility in exchange for trust.

I train more than most LE anyways, they're too busy protecting us to take it to this level. :p

 

[loudshirt]

Assuming that a right to CCW is protected by the 2nd Amendment, you can't keep people who can't shoot from carrying

Ok I agree that you cant keep people from voting just because they cant spell Kat I also agree that you can not keep people from owning firearms just because they have no idea how to use them. This is the part where we will differ. For the sake of public safety you can not shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater. For the sake of public safety you should not be able to carry a gun in public without a certain level of competence. The problem is defining that competence to keep a balance of public safety and accessibility.

 

[Spiff]

Ok I agree that you cant keep people from voting just because they cant spell Kat I also agree that you can not keep people from owning firearms just because they have no idea how to use them. This is the part where we will differ. For the sake of public safety you can not shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater. For the sake of public safety you should not be able to carry a gun in public without a certain level of competence. The problem is defining that competence to keep a balance of public safety and accessibility.

Shouting things intended to cause panic unprovoked is a bit different from drawing a firearm in self-defense.

You have pointed out the flaw in your own argument. Who gets to decide what competent is?

 

[1eye]

Ok I agree that you cant keep people from voting just because they cant spell Kat I also agree that you can not keep people from owning firearms just because they have no idea how to use them. This is the part where we will differ. For the sake of public safety you can not shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater. For the sake of public safety you should not be able to carry a gun in public without a certain level of competence. The problem is defining that competence to keep a balance of public safety and accessibility.

Very well put. It all goes back to earlier comments that stressed responsibility. The whole idea of the qualifying part for a CCW licenseis to prove the capability to safely possess and use a firearm on PRIVATE property that is open to the public. The second amendment doesn't give anybody the right to come on my property and endanger everybody there with a firearm. We must always protect the safety of others even if it means protecting them from ourselves. IMO- In order to protect all our rights we must be responsible enough to protect the rights of others as well as ourselves.

 

[loudshirt]

Shouting things intended to cause panic unprovoked is a bit different from drawing a firearm in self-defense.

You have pointed out the flaw in your own argument. Who gets to decide what competent is?

I dont believe it is a flaw.

I am willing to be that if I shout "fire" in a full theater I will cause much less panic than an incompetent person who whips out a gun and fires wildly because they are trying to defend themselves. Now you have entered the does a persons right to defend themselves include the right for that person to shoot an innocent person due to poor training and shooting?

 

[Nanotech9]

police qualify every... what? 6 months? and how many of them actually practice shooting or even shoot more often than just at quals every 6 months?

how many of them don't even practice before quals?

being a cop doesn't automatically mean you're into guns, or practice shooting constantly. in fact, i would think its safe for me to say that most of the ones i've ever met DON't shoot any more often than once every 6 months at quals, and probably 1/3 or 1/4 of those don't own another handgun than the one that belongs to the PD they work for.

 

[Spiff]

I dont believe it is a flaw.

I am willing to be that if I shout "fire" in a full theater I will cause much less panic than an incompetent person who whips out a gun and fires wildly because they are trying to defend themselves. Now you have entered the does a persons right to defend themselves include the right for that person to shoot an innocent person due to poor training and shooting?

Absolutely not. We are responsible for every round that goes downrange.

That said, if a situation warrants pulling a gun and other folks are around, people are going to be panicking anyway. If the situation does not warrant it, then the person in question is a dumbass and deserves whatever legal repercussions that occur.

Look, I agree that the Oklahoma CHL class is a joke. I feel the class should be an all-or-nothing type deal. Either you don't need a permit at all to carry, or you have to get some serious training. This middle of the road approach is just ridiculous. That said, I believe the US Constitution is fairly specific on whether or not citizens need a permit to carry a concealed weapon.