Personally I would try and hold off for about another year until Chevy can come out with a new factory option. Plus 3m is working on developing a new tank to lessen the cost.
ONG auctions their CNG trucks off when they get some miles on them. I was asked to try and edit the PCM on one several months back for someone that bought a former ONG truck. It was an 03 Silverado that was converted by a tier 1 GM supplier before being sold to ONG. I could read the binary file out of the PCM but couldn't open it with my tuning software. His truck would run on CNG anytime there was CNG in the tank. He said the later year ONG CNG trucks were switchable between CNG and gasoline with a switch on the dash. I think he said he paid $6500 for it at auction with around 150K miles on it.
Yep ethanol is the debil. I don't touch it if I have a choice. I also had a '79 F150 4X4 with an 85 gallon LPG tank in the back. I was building a 400CI with 4V 351 Cleveland heads for it specifically for the propane. It would have been killer, but life happened and I moved to kommiefornia and there was no way in hades I was going to try to get that one in their state. Even with the LPG there was no way because all of the emission controls had been taken off. Wouldn't have passed the visual inspection so they wouldn't have even considered testing the tailpipe. Retards...
I think you are talking about LPG. I could go for a long time on the truck I had with it. I just saw a new Tundra 4X4 with a big white tank in the bed yesterday. It just doesn't make sense from a fuel cost standpoint today, at least for me.
Yes there are more stations popping up all the time too. Chesapeake is diverting a billion dollars from their drilling budget to build fueling infrastructure on the the interstate system. I have a fueling station right on the corner about 1/2 mile from my house. From what I was seeing last night from a quick look, it seems that Oklahoma is booming and becoming the nation's leader in the CNG conversion market. It's going to catch on big time if they keep the tax credits in place. The Feds let theirs drop in 2011.
I saw a post online last night that with the state tax rebate and the rebate from ONG that the net cost for the home fueling station is basically free. The current price per gge fueling at home is .59 cents. .59 cent fuel! I haven't seen that since before I was legal driving age! That's playing a big role in my thinking.
I'm wanting to convert a 2006 F150 4X4 with a 5.4 Triton. I'm sure you can see why. lol
If I can get into one for 5 to 6K I'll probably do it.
The conversion places are a miracle in and to themselves. They have to pay $100,000 to the feds for each specific engine they get certified on. And they have to pay it yearly!
So do they want to promote it or not? Me thinks not. Thanks to the state for getting this one right and to ONG.
For those of us that drive diesel there are some extremely cheap kits out there that will let you run 70% CNG and 30% diesel. Those aren't exact numbers but real close. I am seriously looking at setting up my powerstroke with a kit but I have a tough enough time keeping the damn 6.0 running as it is.
Update:
I got a quote and it was not as high as I expected. Higher than I was hoping though. $6500 for the total system install LESS the tank cost. I just have to decide what tank I want and add that. I'm leaning towards a 13.5 gge and that tank runs $1580. So I'm looking at $8080 total. Then I get a 50% tax credit from the State of OK, and another $1500 from ONG. That gets me to $2540 for the system cost total. Now here's the interesting part. The guy was saying that what they were hearing from "pretty reliable sources in the know" that no matter who won the election, there's a very real possibility that the federal tax credit will be brought back, and that when they've done this in the past they've made it retroactive at least for a year. I do seem to remember something like this but I think he might just be using this to try sell more systems. I know I'm not holding my breath if we don't get a change in Washington.
The system itself is pretty cool. All of the factory sensors, ECM and stuff still works. They add another ECM for the CNG injection. When it switches from CNG to gas and back you can't even tell anything happened. Except for the engine is noticeably quieter on CNG. If you run out of CNG you likely won't even know it, it will just switch to gasoline. They told me that if I bought a newer V8 or even V6 truck they would swap the system over to the new truck for "way under $1000", just depends on how much of the injectors and stuff they can reuse. They way the system is designed it's very universal so most will go right on another vehicle. Supposedly CNG will get you up to 20% better mileage if you drive right. If so that will put my truck right at 20MPG on the highway.
I've also done a little research on the home fueling units. We are real fortunate in Oklahoma. When you put pen to paper on these it gets real revealing. The Phill stations pump about 1 gallon equivalent per hour from what I can tell. They run about 4000 hours before needing an overhaul. If you get 4000 hours you are adding about $1.25 per gallon to the cost of your fuel using the cost of this unit at $5000 and that doesn't include the electricity to run it. So you are actually spending more on fuel at home than at a pump somewhere when considering the unit cost. However in Oklahoma you also get the 50% state tax credit on that PLUS a $2500 rebate from ONG for one of these so that pretty much nixes that problem at least until you need a rebuild.
I went up and looked at them and he had one in a pretty new Tundra 4X4. They had a brand spanking new Denali in the shop and had just finished putting one on a F250 Powerstroke Diesel 4X4 that looked really new. I think I may just do it...
I got a quote and it was not as high as I expected. Higher than I was hoping though. $6500 for the total system install LESS the tank cost. I just have to decide what tank I want and add that. I'm leaning towards a 13.5 gge and that tank runs $1580. So I'm looking at $8080 total. Then I get a 50% tax credit from the State of OK, and another $1500 from ONG. That gets me to $2540 for the system cost total. Now here's the interesting part. The guy was saying that what they were hearing from "pretty reliable sources in the know" that no matter who won the election, there's a very real possibility that the federal tax credit will be brought back, and that when they've done this in the past they've made it retroactive at least for a year. I do seem to remember something like this but I think he might just be using this to try sell more systems. I know I'm not holding my breath if we don't get a change in Washington.
The system itself is pretty cool. All of the factory sensors, ECM and stuff still works. They add another ECM for the CNG injection. When it switches from CNG to gas and back you can't even tell anything happened. Except for the engine is noticeably quieter on CNG. If you run out of CNG you likely won't even know it, it will just switch to gasoline. They told me that if I bought a newer V8 or even V6 truck they would swap the system over to the new truck for "way under $1000", just depends on how much of the injectors and stuff they can reuse. They way the system is designed it's very universal so most will go right on another vehicle. Supposedly CNG will get you up to 20% better mileage if you drive right. If so that will put my truck right at 20MPG on the highway.
I've also done a little research on the home fueling units. We are real fortunate in Oklahoma. When you put pen to paper on these it gets real revealing. The Phill stations pump about 1 gallon equivalent per hour from what I can tell. They run about 4000 hours before needing an overhaul. If you get 4000 hours you are adding about $1.25 per gallon to the cost of your fuel using the cost of this unit at $5000 and that doesn't include the electricity to run it. So you are actually spending more on fuel at home than at a pump somewhere when considering the unit cost. However in Oklahoma you also get the 50% state tax credit on that PLUS a $2500 rebate from ONG for one of these so that pretty much nixes that problem at least until you need a rebuild.
I went up and looked at them and he had one in a pretty new Tundra 4X4. They had a brand spanking new Denali in the shop and had just finished putting one on a F250 Powerstroke Diesel 4X4 that looked really new. I think I may just do it...
I have several CNG vehicles and love them. My brother owns CNG Concepts in Norman. They do all of the City of Norman vehicles. Some words of advice though, if you have a Chevy or ford pickup, get the Quantum 21 gallon tank. Its the most bang for the buck. You have to remember that when you fill at a fast fill station (Loves, 7-11, ONG, City of Norman, On Cue's) you only get filled to 80% of the tank capacity. Slow fill stations will fill to 100%. This is all due to the gas heating and expanding as it is pushed into the tank. I can tell you right now that you will not gain any mpg's. On a EPA certified kit, you will have the same MPG's as on unleaded. All my vehicles are running IMPCO epa cert kits. Its the most popular one out. Also if the federal tax credit comes back it will only be for the EPA kits. Beware of buying used tanks. Those tanks have an expiration date and if you drive and get into some sort of accident that results in a death and they find out you had a expired or out of date tank, a lawyer will eat you up.
If you can try and stay away from the ONG stations. They pass alot of oil through their compressors which goes right into your coalescent filter and into your injectors. The new 7-11 in moore on 19th and Eastern is a great station. $1.30 per gge. City of Norman has an awesomestaion to. $1.50 per gge. I have used the Loves down by riverwind several times but its usually extremely busy. It is nice that the stations seem to be popping up everywhere now.
If you can try and stay away from the ONG stations. They pass alot of oil through their compressors which goes right into your coalescent filter and into your injectors. The new 7-11 in moore on 19th and Eastern is a great station. $1.30 per gge. City of Norman has an awesomestaion to. $1.50 per gge. I have used the Loves down by riverwind several times but its usually extremely busy. It is nice that the stations seem to be popping up everywhere now.
there is all kinds of missinformation out there on this subject, I have operated for two years two jeep cherokees and a honda civic GX that all run on CNG,
there are several types of conversion kits, fogger systems & injection systems, the tax credits from the OTC are good for 50% of your EPA certified kit and new tank, you have 5 years to use the tax credits, And untill they change the wording you can also get 50%tax credits on new non EPA kits with a new tank, but the OTC is talking about changing the wording to EPA kits only.ONG offers a $1500.00 rebate check for converting your vehicle with a EPA kit and new tank or $2500.00 for a dedicated conversion (CNG only) or if you buy a new CNG vehicle, the big problem is that their are just a few trucks, vans & cars that have EPA certified kits available, there are kits out there that will work on almost any vehicle, and work as good or better than EPA kits prices start about $8200.00 and go up depending on tank size and location, fogger systems can be found with used tanks for around $4800.00, fuel stations cost $5000.00 to $14,000.00 and you get what you pay for with these units the phil home unit puts out about .5 GGE per hour and wear out pretty fast, fuelmaker has one that puts out about 1 GGE per hour for about $7500.00 ONG offers a $2500.00 rebate check for a home unit there may be additional credits for home fill stations but I need to check on that, it will cost you about .77 cents per GGE if you consider electricity and maintance, ive never had any problems with the quality of CNG from any ONG station in the tulsa area, I have a website if you need more info about CNG conversions www.greencountrycng.com there is a link on the web site to CNG station locations and a link to info on tax credits
there are several types of conversion kits, fogger systems & injection systems, the tax credits from the OTC are good for 50% of your EPA certified kit and new tank, you have 5 years to use the tax credits, And untill they change the wording you can also get 50%tax credits on new non EPA kits with a new tank, but the OTC is talking about changing the wording to EPA kits only.ONG offers a $1500.00 rebate check for converting your vehicle with a EPA kit and new tank or $2500.00 for a dedicated conversion (CNG only) or if you buy a new CNG vehicle, the big problem is that their are just a few trucks, vans & cars that have EPA certified kits available, there are kits out there that will work on almost any vehicle, and work as good or better than EPA kits prices start about $8200.00 and go up depending on tank size and location, fogger systems can be found with used tanks for around $4800.00, fuel stations cost $5000.00 to $14,000.00 and you get what you pay for with these units the phil home unit puts out about .5 GGE per hour and wear out pretty fast, fuelmaker has one that puts out about 1 GGE per hour for about $7500.00 ONG offers a $2500.00 rebate check for a home unit there may be additional credits for home fill stations but I need to check on that, it will cost you about .77 cents per GGE if you consider electricity and maintance, ive never had any problems with the quality of CNG from any ONG station in the tulsa area, I have a website if you need more info about CNG conversions www.greencountrycng.com there is a link on the web site to CNG station locations and a link to info on tax credits
Dodge Chevy and Ford have Bi-fuel 3/4tons available from the factory, but they are "fleet" vehicles - not sure if you can buy one from the dealer without having a "fleet". I drive a 4x4 Bi-Fuel 2500 Chevy everyday, the truck's computer says I'm averaging 13.6 mpg combined and our fleet department says I'm getting 14.1 combined (over the past year). It is nice to run about 200 miles on CNG and then still have ~400 miles of gasoline to use also. Power is down slightly on CNG, but that only bothers me the few times I pull a trailer, even then it isn't terrible hills are the only place it "hurts" with a trailer - I'd say 10% loss of hp and once at highway speeds it is a non-issue.
I'd like to get one of the new Dodges they have a larger CNG tank and have a 400 mile range on CNG and then 400 on gasoline!
I'd like to get one of the new Dodges they have a larger CNG tank and have a 400 mile range on CNG and then 400 on gasoline!
So... Are you saying that n EPA approved kit is required for the ONG rebate? The place I'm using is doing brand spanking new vehicles from at least two different dealers. Mine is an '06 model and I've not found an EPA approved kit for my truck that goes back to '06. They seem to start at '07 and go up from there and it's the same exact kit!
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