Concealed Carry Rights conundrum!

[j2b45]

This is an interesting scenario. I am just in the beginning stages of getting CCW permit. My question, ignorant though it
may be, is what would be wrong in just saying, "I have a conceal carry permit." I am asking this in the event the spotter
is Not a cop. Is it because your weapon is supposed to be concealed at all times, and if someone spots it, it is considered
brandishing a weapon? Not asking to be a smart alec, but for my own future purposes.

 

[Glocktogo]

This is an interesting scenario. I am just in the beginning stages of getting CCW permit. My question, ignorant though it
may be, is what would be wrong in just saying, "I have a conceal carry permit." I am asking this in the event the spotter
is Not a cop. Is it because your weapon is supposed to be concealed at all times, and if someone spots it, it is considered
brandishing a weapon? Not asking to be a smart alec, but for my own future purposes.

There's nothing wrong with stating you have a permit after the fact. It's not something you advertise, but in this scenario the gun was already out of the bag. Now, when you're asked to produce it by someone who hasn't properly identified themselves yet, it becomes a game of "you show me yours and I'll show you mine".

 

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Cop or not I can't think of any place where one has a greater expectation of privacy than while taking a dump in a restroom. If he was a cop he had no Probable Cause to search or arrest because he would know that the mere possession of a handgun is not evidence of a crime in Oklahoma, and that it's unreasonable not to expose the weapon to view when you have your pants down, and it's not exposed in public because the inside of a toilet stall is not a public place when it's occupied and no one has a right to make it a public place by circumventing the privacy barrier. And, if a kid is young enough to be so stupid as to peep on people taking a dump, he's probably too young to testify in court per state law anyway.

So, the proper answer to the question would be, "None of your business." The "cop" committed battery by grabbing the guy's arm, since it wasn't incident to a lawful arrest. Had he been a cop and been of firm legal ground he would have unequivocally taken charge of the situation, applied cuffs if necessary, and conducted a pat search.

I would have been tempted to hit 911 on the cellphone and enjoyed the show.

 

[Crosstimbers Okie]

As for the issue of the notification law, which states that upon first contact with a police officer you must notify... Like any other law in which the mens rea isn't specified, it would require a "knowing" state of mind for a violation to occur. "Knowing" means believing that something is practically certain. I don't think anyone can be practically certain that some knucklehead in plain clothes is a cop just because he says so. So not only did you handle the situation well, you also followed the law!

The law says you must notify the officer during any traffic stop, detention, or arrest. This was none of those. As for contact, it was the "cop" who made it and it was the crime defined in Oklahoma statutes as "Battery."

 

[Crosstimbers Okie]

cop or not he is a worse parent



I would love some insight on this.... we have had a few discussions on here about self defense in a physical confrontation and the opinion always seems to be avoid it at all cost because if you bring a gun to a fist fight, you become a felon. In this scenario I can't see how some of these responses about putting him in the wall are even considered. If he is an officer "even one making a poor decision" getting physical with him could be very bad for you especially if you are able to put him in the wall. And if it come to an old fashioned "draw down" if he is faster youare dead and if you are faster, you are in prison. it seems both of the men in this scenario are very fortunate it ended so well

As a matter of course you want to avoid physical confrontations at all costs. Or at most costs I should say. You don't want to allow an unarmed assailant to disarm you and use your own gun on you. That would be unreasonable... And possibly your last stupid mistake.

I like pepper spray. It works well on dogs as well as drunks & other dumb asses and it causes no permanent damage. And it's hard for your assailant to shoot you with your own gun, should he get your gun, if he can't see you.

 

[YakBasser]

Plus 1 on the Renta Cop Theory, () and I think the situtation was handled well.

 

[TAPRACKFIRE]

Crazy situation!! Things seem to get more and more out of control.

 

[vooduchikn]

I would have been tempted to call the police and mention that you were being held hostage in the shitter and couldn't get out, and the guy was talking about a gun. Sit on the throne and seehow it goes....


Seems to me your "friend" handled it as correctly as possible.

 

[henschman]

The law says you must notify the officer during any traffic stop, detention, or arrest. This was none of those. As for contact, it was the "cop" who made it and it was the crime defined in Oklahoma statutes as "Battery."

The law requires you to notify "when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer [...] during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop." So you're right... I misquoted the law when I said you have to notify upon "any contact." But you do have to be careful, because "detainment" could include Terry stops, which happens any time a cop stops someone to investigate whether a crime is taking place. If the guy in this thread actually was a cop, he was attempting to conduct a Terry stop by trying to keep the guy there and ask him questions about whether he has a gun. Whether it would have been a legally justified stop based on reasonable suspicion is definitely debatable, but it would still constitute a Terry Stop (which the Supreme Court characterizes as a temporary detention, and seizure of the person for the limited purpose of investigating whether illegal activity is afoot).

So if you know you're actually dealing with a real cop, and want to follow this law, you should notify any time a cop stops you to ask you questions, because it could be legally construed as a "detainment" under the SDA.

Obviously this case is different, because the person did not know that this was a cop.

And no doubt a battery took place.

 

[50Shooter]

I have a suggestion on how to handle it. Please don't take this as criticism, I'm stating this for everyone to discuss options. I appreciate every law abiding CCW holding Oklahoman for helping make our state safer.

When asked calmly say, "I am a concealed carry permit holder". Smile and hold out your hand to shake hands and say "and my name is ___, why do you ask?"

If he claims to be an off duty cop I'd shrug and say "Show me a badge and I'll show you my CCW".

Smile and be friendly and you calm people down.

I would put the ball back in his court by gently reminding him you do have an expectation of privacy in a closed bathroom stall. He should be teaching this to his child.

If after all that the guy does not calm down and keeps acting like a jerk, stay polite but file a complaint with his dept. Always complain on bad cops, the good cops appreciate it when you do.

50Shooter