Confederate flag won't be up for breakfast

[donner]

Perhaps you haven't seen the latest from CNN about removing the Jefferson monument because he had slaves.
George Washington had slaves. Is the Washington monument next?
So my analogy to Isis stands.
Of course it's not going to be torn down but the liberals and republicans on their bully pulpits contest continues.
In Ruffs pictures of the flag that everybody says has to go is a Budweiser and a segrams VO poster. I guess those need to go too.

http://mediaequalizer.com/brian-maloney/2015/06/cnn-take-down-the-jefferson-memorial

No, i saw the link, but your analogy still falls short for the reasons i listed. Discussing removing a monument peacefully is not the same as blowing up a place that you seized in war. CNN asking about presidential monuments does not equate to what ISIS is doing. Not matter how you try to spin it.

I'm sure there are those out there that want to remove the Jefferson monument, and we can have that discussion when the time comes. Without really putting much effort into it, it's easy to see several distinctions between the Jefferson monument and the battle flag.

First among them the fact that Jefferson's side won their rebellion. We can keep going and look at Jefferson's efforts to attack the practice of slavery when he for the Declaration of Independence.

But again, right now we are talking about the flag of a lost rebellion, which is being flown on public property, and has a connection to a much more recent past of racism and oppression. I am glad people feel so passionately about protecting the symbol, but i wish they'd put this much energy into shouting down the hate groups that have usurped the flag.

And as i also pointed out, many of the flags weren't installed or changed immediately after the war, but during the civil rights movement. If the symbol was so worth celebrating and protecting, why did it take the fight for equal rights to get southern states on board with elevating the battle flag to a place of honor?

 

[donner]

Here for all you blacklist lovers,


The truth is this: The United States simply has not come to grips with its racist past. Across our nation, men who owned other human beings-and even raped the human beings they owned-are revered as leaders. These are men who fought hard to keep Africans enslaved in America and have monuments throughout the South, while men who slaughtered Native Americans are celebrated, and sports teams with racially offensive mascots and logos are allowed. This list could go on and on and on.

Should how we treat Thomas Jefferson and George Washington be up for debate? Yes.

Should how we treat Christopher Columbus be up for debate? Definitely.

Should we debate the presence of monuments to Confederate leaders who are on record as stating they would die to keep Africans enslaved in America? Yeah.

It is a slippery slope, but it's a necessary one. For far too long, the United States government has been fully willing to celebrate individuals regardless of the horrendous role they played in the lives of African Americans, Native Americans, women, and other people of color. This is not okay.

It's time for us to put it all on the table. We can do better.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...-Flag-Yes-and-that-s-a-good-thing-for-America

so are you going on the record as being against discussing the items listed above? Or are you trying to indict the people who are against the battle flag by linking to the daily kos?

 

[SoonerP226]

give the Roman salute

It's not a salute--they're just looking for Kyle.

 

[TenBears]

so are you going on the record as being against discussing the items listed above? Or are you trying to indict the people who are against the battle flag by linking to the daily kos?

I'm saying its history, understand things in the times they happened. Is George Washington evil? Thomas Jefferson? They were part of the 2% that owned slaves. America and the west in general were the original people to banish slavery around the world, not only blacks have a history of slavery in this world. Yes I am against trying to erase our common history to placate a few feel good leftist. Now excuse me, I think Rod Serling at my door.

...

Slavery under the Stars and Bars 1861 - 1865 -- 4 years
Slavery under the Stars and Stripes 1776 - 1865 -- 89 years

Which flag, now, is more upsetting?

 

[beardking]

Here for all you blacklist lovers,


The truth is this: The United States simply has not come to grips with its racist past. Across our nation, men who owned other human beings-and even raped the human beings they owned-are revered as leaders. These are men who fought hard to keep Africans enslaved in America and have monuments throughout the South, while men who slaughtered Native Americans are celebrated, and sports teams with racially offensive mascots and logos are allowed. This list could go on and on and on.

Should how we treat Thomas Jefferson and George Washington be up for debate? Yes.

Should how we treat Christopher Columbus be up for debate? Definitely.

Should we debate the presence of monuments to Confederate leaders who are on record as stating they would die to keep Africans enslaved in America? Yeah.

It is a slippery slope, but it's a necessary one. For far too long, the United States government has been fully willing to celebrate individuals regardless of the horrendous role they played in the lives of African Americans, Native Americans, women, and other people of color. This is not okay.

It's time for us to put it all on the table. We can do better.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...-Flag-Yes-and-that-s-a-good-thing-for-America

I could be wrong (happens all the time), but I believe that what is celebrated about those mentioned above has more to do with the positive that they did for the country and not so much the negativity related to them. Now, if all Jefferson and Washington were known for is owning slaves, then, yeah, them being heralded as great leaders and great men would be wrong. However, I'm pretty sure that the whole slave thing was only one portion of what they did in their lives. I'm not belittling the fact that they owned slaves, or defending that they did. I'm just saying, if we only focus on the negative side of people's contributions to the world, then I'm pretty sure quite a few of us on here are going to be considered evil people. However, the people considering us evil people will be evil people as well, because, you know, we are only focusing on their negative attributes.

 

[TenBears]

Don't forget the democrats think gun owners are racist, I guess you guys will submit to help the country heal.

 

[beardking]

You won't buy it from Walmart or amazon.

Both announced today they will no longer sell products with the stars and bars on them.
Those matchbox cars that you have of the General Lee just became a valuable commodity.

Oh the irony. :-)

 

[Glocktogo]

Simply put, there are people on both "sides" who want to live in or recreate the past. Those people care more about what happened in the past than what's happening in America today. The only important history is the history we write going forward from today. The past is past and no one can change it.

So ask yourself, is the past so important that you're willing to compromise the future of our country to maintain it's prominence?

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

Slavery under the Stars and Bars 1861 - 1865 -- 4 years
Slavery under the Stars and Stripes 1776 - 1865 -- 89 years

Which flag, now, is more upsetting?

I'm going to go out on a limb here (no pun intended) and say it's the flag that the KKK is wrapped in when the drag your father out of the house so that they can hang him.

 

[Dale00]

First the confederate flag, then what? Looks like elimination or marginalization of major historical figures who do not fit the progressive image of the country.