DHS using 1,000 more rounds per person than Army

[n2sooners]

Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz said Thursday that the Department of Homeland Security is using roughly 1,000 rounds of ammunition more per person than the U.S. Army, as he and other lawmakers sharply questioned DHS officials on their "massive" bullet buys.

"It is entirely ... inexplicable why the Department of Homeland Security needs so much ammunition," Chaffetz, R-Utah, said at a hearing.

The hearing itself was unusual, as questions about the department's ammunition purchases until recently had bubbled largely under the radar -- on blogs and in the occasional news article. But as the Department of Homeland Security found itself publicly defending the purchases, lawmakers gradually showed more interest in the issue.

Democratic Rep. John Tierney, D-Mass., at the opening of the hearing, ridiculed the concerns as "conspiracy theories" which have "no place" in the committee room.

But Republicans said the purchases raise "serious" questions about waste and accountability.

Chaffetz, who chairs one of the House oversight subcommittees holding the hearing Thursday, revealed that the department currently has more than 260 million rounds in stock. He said the department bought more than 103 million rounds in 2012 and used 116 million that same year -- among roughly 70,000 agents.

Comparing that with the small-arms purchases procured by the U.S. Army, he said the DHS is churning through between 1,300 and 1,600 rounds per officer, while the U.S. Army goes through roughly 350 rounds per soldier.

He noted that is "roughly 1,000 rounds more per person."

"Their officers use what seems to be an exorbitant amount of ammunition," he said.

Nick Nayak, chief procurement officer for the Department of Homeland Security, did not challenge Chaffetz's numbers.

However, Nayak sought to counter what he described as several misconceptions about the bullet buys.

Despite reports that the department was trying to buy up to 1.6 billion rounds over five years, he said that is not true. He later clarified that the number is closer to 750 million.

He said the department, on average, buys roughly 100 million rounds per year.

He also said claims that the department is stockpiling ammo are "simply not true." Further, he countered claims that the purchases are helping create broader ammunition shortages in the U.S.

The department has long said it needs the bullets for agents in training and on duty, and buys in bulk to save money.

While Democrats likened concerns about the purchases to conspiracy theories, Republicans raised concern about the sheer cost of the ammunition.

"This is not about conspiracy theories, this is about good government," Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, said.

Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., who chairs the full Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said he suspects rounds are being stockpiled, and then either "disposed of," passed to non-federal agencies, or shot "indiscriminately."

If that is the case, he said, "then shame on you."

source

So, is the DHS using too much or is the Army using too little?

 

[underpar]

I think it's a matter of tying our troops hands on foreign soil and empowering our "homeland" law enforcement to run roughshod over the general populous. Current policy allows for intimidation of law abiding US citizens, however, current foreign policy wants the US portrayed as a civil, caring, apologetic superpower who is only there to protect!

 

[SoonerP226]

So, is the DHS using too much or is the Army using too little?

Sounds more like the latter, with some of the former. Or maybe the military folks are just more disciplined in their use of ammo...

 

[chuter]

Maybe DHS needs to learn better training techniques.

 

[Spata]

source

So, is the DHS using too much or is the Army using too little?

They need all the practice they can get. Most couldn't hit the broadside of a boat if a terrorist was in it.

 

[Cinaet]

They're either practicing a whole lot, which would mean they're not sitting at their desks wasting time, or they're killing a whole bunch of people. Pretty much anyone here probably knows it's a lot more fun to be at the range wasting time than it is to be at your desk wasting time.

 

[Glocktogo]

I'd say that while 350 rounds per year per soldier isn't enough, what the feds are shooting isn't too much. Consider if your loved ones were nearby when a shootout with federal agents occurred. This isn't a concern for the typical soldier in a combat zone, but most of us would want those agents as proficient as possible with their firearms in that scenario.

I'm not siding with DHS on how much ammo they're stockpiling, just pointing out the logical fallacy of that particular argument.

 

[WessonOil]

Besides the fact that our troops aren't shooting enough rounds, I imagine DHS agents are shooting the ammo for recreational purposes, and allowing friends to shoot is as well.

I know for a fact I ran a 25 round magazine of DHS ammo through a rifle courtesy of the taxpayer.

 

[caojyn]

He said the department, on average, buys roughly 100 million rounds per year.

Is that all it takes to trample on the Constitution?

 

[uncle money bags]

I'd say that while 350 rounds per year per soldier isn't enough, what the feds are shooting isn't too much. Consider if your loved ones were nearby when a shootout with federal agents occurred. This isn't a concern for the typical soldier in a combat zone, but most of us would want those agents as proficient as possible with their firearms in that scenario.

I'm not siding with DHS on how much ammo they're stockpiling, just pointing out the logical fallacy of that particular argument.

Considering the majority of troops in the Army are support and not direct action soldiers; the average rounds expended is not a good indicator of the true picture. Troops whose primary duty is actually closing with and engaging use far more rounds in training.