DHS using 1,000 more rounds per person than Army

[Defnestor]

116,000,000 / 70,000 = 1657/yr / 12 mo = approx. 138
Consider that some only shoot to qualify once a year, and some may run a couple of mags out of theit MP-5 shooting at bad guys (does DHS shoot bad guys?). This doesn't seem unreasonable, until...

70,000 agents / 50 states = 1400.

That's a lot, on top of FBI, and what do they actually DO? When was the last time a DHS agent came to your kids school and described their mandate, methods, and how they thwarted the Bowler Hat Bomber?

 

[twoguns?]

116,000,000 / 70,000 = 1657/yr / 12 mo = approx. 138
Consider that some only shoot to qualify once a year, and some may run a couple of mags out of theit MP-5 shooting at bad guys (does DHS shoot bad guys?). This doesn't seem unreasonable, until...

70,000 agents / 50 states = 1400.

That's a lot, on top of FBI, and what do they actually DO? When was the last time a DHS agent came to your kids school and described their mandate, methods, and how they thwarted the Bowler Hat Bomber?

Whaat?/ I thought Bond got Hi-Hat

 

[SoonerP226]

(does DHS shoot bad guys?).

DHS includes the Border Patrol and the Coast Guard, and they've both been known to shoot bad guys on occasion.

 

[ez bake]

I'd say that while 350 rounds per year per soldier isn't enough, what the feds are shooting isn't too much. Consider if your loved ones were nearby when a shootout with federal agents occurred. This isn't a concern for the typical soldier in a combat zone, but most of us would want those agents as proficient as possible with their firearms in that scenario.

I'm not siding with DHS on how much ammo they're stockpiling, just pointing out the logical fallacy of that particular argument.

Agreed if we were talking about an LEO or even Federal agencies that is supposed to be armed and chasing bad-guys that include American Citizens, but the DHS has somehow become "America's National Police force" without the title and that is where I have the ultimate problem with them being as wide-spread or massively armed or with the amounts of guns/ammo they're purchasing. They're essentially supposed to be catching spies and terrorists - which require a lot more intelligence-gathering and secretive operations than it does riot-gear, small-arms, and check-stations. It sure doesn't require the amount of "troops on the ground" and power in the US that they've been accumulating en masse for a short period of time.

I want the agencies employed by the US to be trained well and good marksman, but I don't know why we need so many agencies overlapping or trumping each others' power. We've increased the money, power, people, guns/ammo, etc. to all of these agencies and given up a lot of freedoms to make sure we're safe. Are we that much safer?

The FBI, CIA, NSA, DHS, etc. all have grown to far more than what they were originally intended - and we're passing laws to make sure our civil liberties don't trip them up on doing their job of... protecting our civil liberties...

 

[tulsamal]

I agree that the amount of ammo expended seems reasonable considering the number of armed agents. 100 rounds a month is hardly a large amount of practice. Now whether there are too many of them and what they do... I would have to hear some more explanations.

As far as the Army, I was in a combat MOS and I never thought we got to shoot enough ammo. (85-93.) We got to fire a couple of short bursts of full auto in Basic to see how it worked. As far as the M16 goes, I never got to fire it full auto again. All full auto fire was with a Grease Gun, M60, M249, M2 and one time on a Vulcan cannon. Considering the amount of combat in the last 12 years, I'm sure that sort of training has improved.

This is going to sound like some crazy civilian idea but, looking back on my service, I wish my unit would have done some paintball training. Maybe state of the art wasn't as advanced back then but I've recently done some woodland paintball games and it was the closest I've come to real force on force training. I've done some training before on clearing a building. Door by door, room by room. But my heart has never pumped as hard as when I did it in this paintball castle. I had already taken a couple of hits and I knew the darn things hurt. And getting shot in there was going to be up close and full auto. It wasn't the same thing as worrying about getting killed but it did really sharpen the training in a way that was new to me.

Finally, I think this whole DHS ammo thing has been blown WAY out of proportion. At some point, we start to believe our own propaganda. I was visiting my 72 year old Dad this weekend. He asked me how the ammo situation was up in the Tulsa area. I told him it was still really hard to find most things. Or really expensive. (I also told him it didn't really matter to me because I was prepared before this all started.) I told Dad that the only really frustrating part is the way .22 LR disappears. How people stand there at WM as it is unloaded and buy it all. How places like Midway and Brownell's have none to ship and won't take backorders. Dad listened to all this and then told me the whole thing was "caused by the government buying up all the ammo to create a shortage for civilians." I looked at him for a minute and then asked him if he really thought DHS was buying up billions of rounds of .22 LR?? He had to admit that was unlikely... but he still thinks its a government conspiracy. Somehow.

Gregg

 

[twoguns?]

I agree with Dad, Maybe theyre using all the manpower to make the .gov boolits that they just cant get any 22lr off the presses......EHH?..

 

[malbrour]

The simplest answer is usually the correct one. They're probably stealing the ammo, taking the stuff home. Why else would they be getting al those calibers?

No ammo shortages for DHS folks at home!

 

[rebelracer79]

Finally, I think this whole DHS ammo thing has been blown WAY out of proportion. At some point, we start to believe our own propaganda. I was visiting my 72 year old Dad this weekend. He asked me how the ammo situation was up in the Tulsa area. I told him it was still really hard to find most things. Or really expensive. (I also told him it didn't really matter to me because I was prepared before this all started.) I told Dad that the only really frustrating part is the way .22 LR disappears. How people stand there at WM as it is unloaded and buy it all. How places like Midway and Brownell's have none to ship and won't take backorders. Dad listened to all this and then told me the whole thing was "caused by the government buying up all the ammo to create a shortage for civilians." I looked at him for a minute and then asked him if he really thought DHS was buying up billions of rounds of .22 LR?? He had to admit that was unlikely... but he still thinks its a government conspiracy. Somehow.

Gregg

If they had half a brain the gov would have some .22 uppers for training and then they wouldn't be wasting all our money for .223 rnds. Wait that's logical we don't have to worry about them doing that.

 

[malbrour]

And now the Park Police have lost track of guns...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/28/us-park-police-lost-track-huge-supply-weapons-report-says/?test=latestnews

 

[WessonOil]

Let's be honest...who here hasn't lost a large number of pistol, shotguns, and rifles, not to mention stealing a few from time to time.

These things just happen.

I'm sure none of the firearms lost wound up in the hands of criminals.

I'm so glad we're being protected by "professionals."