J.P. said:
I beg to differ...
I beg to differ...
GMThunder said:
Well, I can only speak from my own experiences and those of others that I have seen.
I stopped shooting 1911s for two reasons, although i still like them a lot:
1. Expensive ammunition (for 45).
2. I had at least one jam a match.
Between my dad and I, we have shot probaby 100,000 rounds in the last 10 months. And not a single jam. (Other than user error, for example, riding slidelock or putting it together wrong
)And that, makes me a believer of the Gospel of Glock.
I understand this.... doesn't make it the law of the land.
Cool, everyone should shoot what they are comfortable with. This isn't the point though, and I'm not here to talk people into 1911s.
Once again this isn't the point, I'm a glock believer too. However, it is not the only reliable weapon out there, therefore no more "jam-free" than certain other makes.
Again,there is no gospel in this thread.
Just opinion and nobody ever said that Glock is the law of the land.
Jays opinion is formed from many many hours of IDPA and IPSC match shooting.
I'd wager that he puts more rounds downrange in a week than most of this group does in a year.
So,even though he's 16 years old,he still cannot deny what he sees regarding reliabilty of certain models.
I just cannot see the logic in arguing with that.
Are there 100% reliable 1911s?...No.....nothing is 100%....not Glock....not S&W....not SIG (well, maybe SIG
)
Are there 99% 1911s?.....Yes.
On a whole,1911s are less reliable in the situations in which *we* encounter them.
For whatever reason....shooter induced....bad modifications.....bad factory quality...bad ammo....etc....doesn't matter.
By the same token,it is very rare to see any malfunctions with a Glock.
Does it happen?
Yes ,but at nowhere near the rate that it does with 1911s.
Glocks also greatly outnumber 1911s so there is a greater chance of seeing a malfunction in one than in a 1911.
If you wish to call that experience 'limited' then go ahead
Now,please feel free to dissect my post with your 'trick of the day' quote and reply game.
Just opinion and nobody ever said that Glock is the law of the land.
Jays opinion is formed from many many hours of IDPA and IPSC match shooting.
I'd wager that he puts more rounds downrange in a week than most of this group does in a year.
So,even though he's 16 years old,he still cannot deny what he sees regarding reliabilty of certain models.
I just cannot see the logic in arguing with that.
Are there 100% reliable 1911s?...No.....nothing is 100%....not Glock....not S&W....not SIG (well, maybe SIG
)Are there 99% 1911s?.....Yes.
On a whole,1911s are less reliable in the situations in which *we* encounter them.
For whatever reason....shooter induced....bad modifications.....bad factory quality...bad ammo....etc....doesn't matter.
By the same token,it is very rare to see any malfunctions with a Glock.
Does it happen?
Yes ,but at nowhere near the rate that it does with 1911s.
Glocks also greatly outnumber 1911s so there is a greater chance of seeing a malfunction in one than in a 1911.
If you wish to call that experience 'limited' then go ahead
Now,please feel free to dissect my post with your 'trick of the day' quote and reply game.
Not trying to be tricky by any means..... and why is it a game or trick if I address comments seperately?
You keep saying that there was no "gospel" in this thread but I've highlighted the original blanket statement very clearly. I believe it's intentional meaning leaves no room for error.
It is rare to see a malfunction with a Glock... I agree. However, I say it's also rare to see one with a H&K, Sig, and SOME 1911s (certain companies I won't speak for) and let me include CZs in the mix. This is my oriiginal point, nothing more, nothing less. The emphasis shifted towards 1911s after the 1911 stabs were thrown in.
Ok so you've stated your experiences with 1911s, what about other makes? Didn't your comments about Sigs rival what was said? Or will a Glock ALWAYS jam less than a Sig?
Glocks greatly outnumber 1911s so there are more chances for possibility of failure? Sure ok.... what are the numbers?
Since we are considering the laws of chance here might I ask you a few outside the box questions? How many companies make 1911 copies? How many more variables would that add to the equation of having a less than par product. Sig's decision to make a GSR for instance, it was hurried, and poorly planned. They thought they could just buy parts from other manufacterers and throw them together and put their name on it and BAM.. we've got a great 1911. Didn't work out that way. Sig admitted as such and shut down the line due to too many problems. They've regrouped so to speak and are re-releasing GSRs. Only one example of many.
My experiences are very limited aswell relative to the entire handgun scene, to think otherwise would pretty egocentric IMO. Point is, that there are just too many good manufacturers out there to make sweeping and blanket statements like the one that was made, especially since there are facts that prove otherwise, and while someone may have put 100,000 rounds downrange in the last year, it doesn't make up for a comprehensive understanding for the entire handgun scene in terms of reliability.
Can't we all just get along? Just kidding. Favorite gun? My Ed Brown Classic Custom. Practical? Glock 27. I like H&K and Sig, but their service is the worst unless you are an agency or military. Less is more and 34 parts is better for carry than 55.
Hoov
Hoov
Bleh, guns iz good, no matter which kind.
It is true that many companies make 1911 copies. However, examine the main ones - the *good* ones - such as Kimber, SVI, STI, Springfield, maybe even Colt?
Regardless of type, I've seen them all jam.
Not saying they aren't cool guns, because they really are.
GMThunder said:
It is true that many companies make 1911 copies. However, examine the main ones - the *good* ones - such as Kimber, SVI, STI, Springfield, maybe even Colt?
Regardless of type, I've seen them all jam.
Not saying they aren't cool guns, because they really are.
GMT,
It is not a 'trick' it is just annoying to me and perhaps others,when someone tries to pick apart every word or statement that is just an internet OPINION,in an attempt to discredit that person.
This is not a court of law.
Was it a 'blanket' indictment of a whole class of weapons?
Probably. So what.
I'm sure Jay has enough experience with both weapons to form his opinion.
Could he be wrong? Sure,but your persistance in trying to 'correct' him does more damage to the public good than his statement that Glocks are better than 1911s.
If he were to have pretexted his statement with :
"From what I have seen" (glocks jam less than any other weapon) would that have made a difference or would his experience or "what he has seen" have been called into question as was mine?
Will a SIG always jam less than a Glock?
Yes,in my experience,I have found that to be true.
I'm not going to bother to qualify that or list my extensive experience with both weapons.
Since we are checking facts to discredit opinion here,I'm going to give you a rough estimate of Glock vs. 1911 numbers at any local match.If you need exact specifics,you'll have to research it yourself.
Roughly the number is 28 Glocks to 7 1911s.
Variances among manufacturers do account for poorer quality,no doubt.
There are also a lot of poor manufacturers out there.
I could take a survey of whaich brands jam the most and say "Kimbers jam more than any other 1911".
While that might not necessarily be scientifically accurate,it would satisfy me,because I don't trust them not to.
Of course as (at least semi-) intelligent adults,we can draw our own conclusions and just because something is written on an internet board doesn't mean the author has spoken the 'gospel' and has an agenda.
Read it,disagree, and move on.
I had to edit my original; post to state that he probably put more rounds downrange in a "week" instead of "month" than most of us do all year.
Again,he is entitled and more than likely qualified to make blanket statements...he sees and shoots a lot of guns and I don't think his qualifications need to be called into question.
Glock ain't the "be all end all" of handguns but they are darn good.
When the perfect handgun comes along,I'll let you know.
It is not a 'trick' it is just annoying to me and perhaps others,when someone tries to pick apart every word or statement that is just an internet OPINION,in an attempt to discredit that person.
This is not a court of law.
Was it a 'blanket' indictment of a whole class of weapons?
Probably. So what.
I'm sure Jay has enough experience with both weapons to form his opinion.
Could he be wrong? Sure,but your persistance in trying to 'correct' him does more damage to the public good than his statement that Glocks are better than 1911s.
If he were to have pretexted his statement with :
"From what I have seen" (glocks jam less than any other weapon) would that have made a difference or would his experience or "what he has seen" have been called into question as was mine?
Will a SIG always jam less than a Glock?
Yes,in my experience,I have found that to be true.
I'm not going to bother to qualify that or list my extensive experience with both weapons.
Since we are checking facts to discredit opinion here,I'm going to give you a rough estimate of Glock vs. 1911 numbers at any local match.If you need exact specifics,you'll have to research it yourself.
Roughly the number is 28 Glocks to 7 1911s.
Variances among manufacturers do account for poorer quality,no doubt.
There are also a lot of poor manufacturers out there.
I could take a survey of whaich brands jam the most and say "Kimbers jam more than any other 1911".
While that might not necessarily be scientifically accurate,it would satisfy me,because I don't trust them not to.
Of course as (at least semi-) intelligent adults,we can draw our own conclusions and just because something is written on an internet board doesn't mean the author has spoken the 'gospel' and has an agenda.
Read it,disagree, and move on.
I had to edit my original; post to state that he probably put more rounds downrange in a "week" instead of "month" than most of us do all year.
Again,he is entitled and more than likely qualified to make blanket statements...he sees and shoots a lot of guns and I don't think his qualifications need to be called into question.
Glock ain't the "be all end all" of handguns but they are darn good.
When the perfect handgun comes along,I'll let you know.
Tru-Dat. Can't wait till they come out with a gun with a slide that you can't get your fingers stuck in. Just playin J.P.
Can't wait till they come out with a gun with a slide that you can't get your fingers stuck in. Just playin J.P.
