Gun Show Situation, we need a ruling

[tntrex]

I think what you did was nice.

 

[amadera]

And it is too damn bad "THEY" do not teach that concept any more. Now it's more like, "what can I get away with."

Oh my gosh.........I thought "we" were "THEY" LOL

 

[JB Books]

Oh my gosh.........I thought "we" were "THEY" LOL

Well, "WE" are doing a piss poor job, the same as "THEY."

 

[shotty]

I was there when the it came over the speaker. I was talking to one of dealer's and we both said 'straw purchase' at the same time.

 

[yukonjack]

Unlike JB, you left out the word "regularly", so I fixed it for you.

If you look at my first post in the thread, I included the legal definition of a dealer. That definition specifically includes the word regularly. Words have meaning, especially in a legal definition.

A person that buys and sells guns occasionally, even if they make a profit, are not, by definition, dealers.

A person that regularlybuys and sells guns for a profit, are, by definition, dealers.

Anybody that frequents gunshows is aware of the difference. If you regularly see the same people with the "private collection" or "no papers" signs on their tables, and their inventory changes at every show, you can be certain that they are dealing without a license, which is illegal.

If I occasionally buy a gun collection with the intention of selling some of the guns at a profit so that I have little or no money in the ones I keep, or, if I intend to sell them all at a profit, I am not, by definition, dealing without a license.

If I do the same on a regular basis, I am.

There is a difference, and, unfortunately, some people just can't seem to understand that difference.

"Regularly" define this? Daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually? ATF has a wide berth here.

 

[Buzzgun]

"Regularly" define this? Daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually? ATF has a wide berth here.

Yes, there is some "judgement" as to what constitutes "regularly" doing something, however, the legal definition of dealing is even more clearly defined.


As posted earlier:

21) The term "engaged in the business" means -
(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section
921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to
dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with
the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the
repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall
not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or
purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal
collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his
personal collection of firearms;

If you are not someone who "devotes time, attention, and labor to
dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with
the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the
repetitive purchase and resale of firearms", then you aren't, by definition, a dealer.

 

[cmhbob]

I've worked a show with Dave, and trust his instincts. He did the right thing.

 

[NikatKimber]

Yes, there is some "judgement" as to what constitutes "regularly" doing something, however, the legal definition of dealing is even more clearly defined.


As posted earlier:



If you are not someone who "devotes time, attention, and labor to
dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with
the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the
repetitive purchase and resale of firearms", then you aren't, by definition, a dealer.

So basically, if that income from gun trading is not part of your livelihood then you're legally safe?

 

[sixseven]

Does anyone have any reference for this? Again, I'm just curious.... because we have members bragging about going to Academy, buying ARs and selling them for $2500 at the gunshow for example.

That sounds familiar. I would hardly think that selling four guns over the course of one month could be contrued by anyone as "regularly" and most definitely can't be considered one's livelyhood. I also read somewhere that the ATF takes into consideration whether or not you are selling multiple guns of the same or similar model, in other words replenishing your inventory. If selling a gun for a profit is the only consideration, there are a lot of people in the classifieds right here on OSA that are in violation.

 

[Cedar Creek]

Better safe than sorry may have been the best doctrine - if the seller was uncomfortable with the deal he answered his own question when he asked you. I don't think the sale would have been illegal, but if my inner alarm was going off I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't want to be worried about a knock on my door sometime in the future. A young man I've been well acquainted with since his birth recently tried to buy a rifle from me and I wouldn't sell it to him although he offered more than it felt it was worth. I told mim why I wouldn't sell it to him - it is a .243 WSSM and he is not a handloader. Ammo is currently $40.00 a box if you can find it and will be harder to find each year as it continues to fade into obsolescence. If a sale is not something you will feel good about - just don't do it. With that said - if about anyone else offered me the same deal the gavel would have dropped fast!

Cedar Creek