Handgunlaw.us & OK No Firearm Signs/CWL Image

[Gary Slider]

Handgunlaw.us is adding No Firearm Sign information to each states page. OK law does not directly spell out if they have the force of law when it comes to private property or not. From what I can see OK does give those No Firearm Signs on Private Property the force of Law.


Title 21. Chapter 53 - Oklahoma Self-Defense Act Section 1290.22 -

A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.

B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle.

Now if they didn't have the force of law would they have to mention Parking Lots? They use the word "Prohibit" in it. Also it is very difficult to cite something that doesn't exist. If the law doesn't state it is not illegal then by omission it is legal.

My big problem is I can't just say on Handgunlaw.us don't pay any attention to them on Private Property if I am not sure. I don't want to get someone arrested.

Can anyone cite an Court Case, AG Opinion or something from an attorney that says these signs DO or DON'T have th force of law on Private Property?

My Opinion or anyone's opinion doesn't mean much when someone is arrested and charged. Just stating keep it concealed doesn't answer the question either. We try to report the laws so that people know what their rights are. In some states it will be impossible to do that as again how do you cite something when there is nothing to cite. Any assistance you can Give Handgunlaw.us in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Hangunlaw.us is also adding an image of each states Permit/License to Carry. The link below takes you to the OK License Image that will be on the OK page at Handgunlaw.us on 1/1/11. Please check it out and if it is not correct (It is not 100%) please let me know. The image I had is a few years old and OK might have changed the Format.

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g327/GarySlider/MyOklahomaCCWImage.jpg

 

[Old Fart]

Nevermind...........

 

[buckeye]

Generally, folks say that you'd risk nothing more than a trespassing charge for "violating" a no guns sign.

But as far as I know, the subject has yet to come up in court.

 

[skyydiver]

AFAIK there is nothing to cite except the wording of the SDA, which you have. I think I'd just post it as is and let the individual decide.

 

[Gary Slider]

Oklahoma is not the only state that doesn't have language in their state about No Gun Signs. They do have laws on Trespass but when it comes to buildings they are vague. When it comes to open property OK Laws seem to say that the signs have the force of law. That is what makes it so tough to write anything. Like I said in my first post how do you cite something that doesn't exist. Just hoping someone in OK had something in a court case or something that spelled it out better. Thanks Gentlemen.

 

[SMS]

The fact there are no court cases, that we know of, just goes to show that as a group we are mostly law-abiding, civil, and discrete folks.

I'm happy that OK law is vague in regard to signage....

 

[Gary Slider]

SMS, We are a law abiding group. When it comes to a state that the signs do not have the force of law I am going to put the following. There is a couple icons that go along with it that won't post here. The No Gun Signs= No Money is a link to download and print those cards.

Many anti gunners read what we post on sites like this and on Handgunlaw.us I don't want to post something that will make us look like we don't obey the laws. My main purpose is to provide the laws and let the people decide for themselves.
Here is the wording you will fin on Handgunlaw.us after 1/1/11 for states that the signs don't have the force of law.

"Handgunlaw.us highly recommends that you not enter a place that is posted "No Firearms" no matter what the state laws read/mean on signage. We recommend you print out the No Guns = No Money Cards and give one to the owner of the establishment that has the signage." As responsible gun owners and upholders of the 2nd Amendment we should also honor the rights of property owners to control their own property even if we disagree with them."
”No Firearm” signs in (State Name) have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are ask to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass etc. could arrest you even if you are within the law.


For states that have signs that have the force of law I am trying to put the law under an icon that says signs have the force of law. It will be interesting as I know there are a few states that I have the signs having the force of law and they actually don't. I also have 8 or 9 states with a big ? mark saying I don't have enough info.

I live in WV and I instruct and I know the signs don't have the force of law here. But when someone from a state says their signs don't and they are in the same position I am in and know their state laws but I don't know them. I just can't put OK they don't but these people have the knowledge as they are in the same position I am in in WV but I don't know them. So it will be interesting at first and it will take some time to get them all ironed out but we will.

 

[Profreedomokie]

I talked to one of Cleet's lawyers yesterday about some of the post on here because of all the confusion. They talk in circles to answer a question because they don't have malpractice insurance. If you have patience they will lead you to an awswer. Section 1290.22 in the instructor's book deals with weapons in vehicles only other than Note(K). This section gives you the right to have a weapon in your vehicle on company but,did you sign it away. When you hired in did you sign any papers stating that you would abide by all company policies? If you did and they have a "No Weapons On Company Property" policy,then you signed that right away. If you are caught with a weapon in your vehicle ,you're screwed. I don't know about you but,I don't remember what I signed 30 years ago. On entering businesses with signs up and being caught because you didn't carry it "fully concealed from detection and view" ,you could be charged with trespassing. This does not limit a hot headed DA from charging you with "carrying into a prohibited place " if they want their name in the news. I hope this helps and doesn't add to the confusion. I researched this to try and help out. One more thing ,the lawyer didn't know anything about a yellow shirt law.