Agree with Mossy HD shotty.
Personally, for HD in an apartment, I'd use a frangible bullet from a hand gun instead of anything else, but if your convinced a shotgun is the way to go, I will beat the drum again that I would go with a Rem 1100 or similar auto loader.
Take a hit in the arm and see if you can jack another round with only one hand.
It possible, and requires lots of training, and takes lots of time.
the semi-auto puts one right back into the fight with the weak hand.
Reliability? Just consider the reputation of the 1100, as well as the Benelli's, Brownings, etc.
Of course if you want...the Tromix Saiga is probably the ultimate
Take a hit in the arm and see if you can jack another round with only one hand.
It possible, and requires lots of training, and takes lots of time.
the semi-auto puts one right back into the fight with the weak hand.
Reliability? Just consider the reputation of the 1100, as well as the Benelli's, Brownings, etc.
Of course if you want...the Tromix Saiga is probably the ultimate
I too say that you can't beat the Maverick 88, It is made by Mossy so you know it is good.
I bought the 88 18.5" barrel and added a Knox stock on it so that it is short enough for my wife, heaven forbid she need to use it quickly.
I bought the 88 18.5" barrel and added a Knox stock on it so that it is short enough for my wife, heaven forbid she need to use it quickly.
this is just for discussion, and not disagreeing with anything you have said,
But, what is your opinion of a pump, vs a semi auto?
The 88's are a great budget choice if you are wanting new. I almost bought one until I found my Pawn Shop purchase. If you get lucky and find an older one like mine that's in good shape, then buy it! Mine has the added benefit of all steel parts (saftey, trigger, etc.) and the action is already broken in, smooth as butter. I believe mine is a late 70s production.
I am sure that in a tactical situation the semi would be optimal. But I think that a pump is more of an option for most of us due to price and availability.
The H&R is a 870 cloneand therefore most 870 accesories will fit on the H&R. However the H&R is made in China. There are claims by a metallurgist that the H&R is actually manufactured with stronger metals than the 870 Express. Theres some good videos on Youtube of this shotgun.
I picked up an older 1100 12ga for $250.
The problem is that in order to effectively defend yourself from an armed badguy, you need to shoot him/her with something that presents the same amount of force that it takes to penetrate a wall.
Birdshot, smaller gauge shotguns, etc... all sound like good compromises, but think about an armed bad guy that is shooting at you or even moving towards your kids with a knife - what do you want to shoot at that bad guy?
I sure don't want to shoot something that I'm not sure will stop him.
I don't even own a self defense shotgun anymore because of a few reasons. One is what Dennis said - the sound made when racking a pump shotgun, while scary, is not reliable enough to scare an armed badguy - in fact, if he's armed and not planning on killing you, that sound will probably make him think that he has to now. I don't want to scare someone who is threatening my life, I want to stop him/her from threatening my life - period.
If I need to shoot a bad guy more than once, I want to do it quickly and as many times as it takes until that bad guy falls from my sight picture. The best way to do this is with a semi-auto rifle/shotgun/handgun (or at least a double-action revolver).
Shotguns aren't just "aim from the hip and shoot" guns either - pattern one at 15 yards and it will show that you still have to aim and can easily miss (and shotguns don't come from the factory with great sights or optic-mounting options unless you upgrade or buy rails to mount something on).
A shotgun doesn't really make your neighbors any safer from collateral damage unless you step down in ammo (or gauge) to the point that you don't have a guarantee of stopping the bad-guy. The Box O truth talks about penetrating 6 pieces of drywall all the way down to #4 Buckshot - I personally wouldn't go below that for self-defense, and at that point, you're still able to penetrate 3 walls (provided you don't hit a stud, etc... and each wall has one piece of drywall on each side).
Knock-down power is a myth - don't believe the hype (just ask any hunter). You don't kill large animals by "knocking them down", you kill them by putting a hole in a vital area that stops them from doing whatever they were doing before (same with a bad guy).
Point being that if you want to truly have good odds at stopping a bad-guy, you want to be shooting something that will penetrate a wall or two.
Don't get me wrong, there are other options out there and if you want to use smaller ammo or a smaller gauge, then that's fine, but understand the compromise and risk you've taken by lowering your odds.
Some folks only have baseball bats to defend themselves with, so if that's all you're comfortable with in order to not shoot a neighbor, then its a personal decision and that's cool too.
Birdshot, smaller gauge shotguns, etc... all sound like good compromises, but think about an armed bad guy that is shooting at you or even moving towards your kids with a knife - what do you want to shoot at that bad guy?
I sure don't want to shoot something that I'm not sure will stop him.
I don't even own a self defense shotgun anymore because of a few reasons. One is what Dennis said - the sound made when racking a pump shotgun, while scary, is not reliable enough to scare an armed badguy - in fact, if he's armed and not planning on killing you, that sound will probably make him think that he has to now. I don't want to scare someone who is threatening my life, I want to stop him/her from threatening my life - period.
If I need to shoot a bad guy more than once, I want to do it quickly and as many times as it takes until that bad guy falls from my sight picture. The best way to do this is with a semi-auto rifle/shotgun/handgun (or at least a double-action revolver).
Shotguns aren't just "aim from the hip and shoot" guns either - pattern one at 15 yards and it will show that you still have to aim and can easily miss (and shotguns don't come from the factory with great sights or optic-mounting options unless you upgrade or buy rails to mount something on).
A shotgun doesn't really make your neighbors any safer from collateral damage unless you step down in ammo (or gauge) to the point that you don't have a guarantee of stopping the bad-guy. The Box O truth talks about penetrating 6 pieces of drywall all the way down to #4 Buckshot - I personally wouldn't go below that for self-defense, and at that point, you're still able to penetrate 3 walls (provided you don't hit a stud, etc... and each wall has one piece of drywall on each side).
Knock-down power is a myth - don't believe the hype (just ask any hunter). You don't kill large animals by "knocking them down", you kill them by putting a hole in a vital area that stops them from doing whatever they were doing before (same with a bad guy).
Point being that if you want to truly have good odds at stopping a bad-guy, you want to be shooting something that will penetrate a wall or two.
Don't get me wrong, there are other options out there and if you want to use smaller ammo or a smaller gauge, then that's fine, but understand the compromise and risk you've taken by lowering your odds.
Some folks only have baseball bats to defend themselves with, so if that's all you're comfortable with in order to not shoot a neighbor, then its a personal decision and that's cool too.
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