No he doesn't. If he's going to punish me for not following his rules, there is no choice. This isn't a difficult concept to understand. His game, his rules. There is no opting out. It's tyranny, pure and simple.
No he doesn't. If he's going to punish me for not following his rules, there is no choice. This isn't a difficult concept to understand. His game, his rules. There is no opting out. It's tyranny, pure and simple.
Yes, I've heard of it. Unfortunately, I disagree with the evidence aspect of Christ and/or his divinity. But that's all really secondary to me. On a ideological level, I disagree with the god of the bible... Both new and old testament gods (who are clearly different despite the bible saying this god is the same yesterday today and forever).
The different vengeful old testament God is a misconception IMO because it over looks the context of the times and to some extent his prerogatives as the Creator. The people against whom his wrath was eventually and decisively executed were cultures in extreme decay. Decay as in rampant incest and child sacrifice. Decay from which there was no escape. Rather than genocide, call them "mercy killings" if you will. I believe they were done in large part to prevent the cycle of terrible suffering from continuing. The times were evil indeed. (Zombies?)
Consider the case of Jonah. Instead of the story being about Jonah being swallowed by a fish, it is really about Jonah's stubborn hatred against an enemy of the Jews. God uses him against his will to help a decaying culture turn from their evil ways. They repent and are spared destruction much to Jonah's chagrin. God extended great patience and mercy and only destroyed as a last resort.
Killing all the firstborn in Egypt because Pharaoh and God could not get along? He even killed the firstborn animals. Your God murdered innocent creatures. He's a blood thirsty god. Requiring animal sacrifice? Why require death and torment from any living thing? How about the treatment of women as property? He commanded the "Godly" armies to kill the non-virgins and take the virgins for themselves. How about the generational curses for the actions of a few? Innocent people were cursed because someone else they never knew ****ed up? And you endorse that? How are any of these things a representation of kindness, love, goodness, decency, compassion etc...?
Like I said, he's not worthy of my endorsement.
Why destroy anything? Let them make their own decisions and succeed or fail on their own merit. Why does he have to kill everyone that disagrees with him? Because he's an *******.
So, you see... This is why proof of his divinity or realness is irrelevant to me. It doesn't fix his very serious character flaws.
Last edited:
Your choice of the word "punishment" is interesting. The only punishment for the non-believer is no eternal salvation, in my opinion. Or more simply, no afterlife in the presence and glory of God and his love. How can anyone who does not believe in God expect to have this reward. Your afterlife my simply be that you cease to exist. I don't necessarily subscribe to others thoughts regarding hell and punishment, burning in fire, etc. It could be as simple as there is nothing for you after this life on earth. Do you consider that a punishment?
If God were a human being or an abstraction, you would be correct in many or most respects. But he isn't - He is the creator. He owns everything and everyone. He gives people free will to accept to reject him. So your premise and mine differ.
Looking through the lens of current times your outrage is understandable. But some of your assertions are incorrect. The sacrifice of an animal was done quickly and cleanly. No torture in any sense. It was done to change the hearts of people - to make them understand their sins required repentance. Treatment of women - What may sound terrible from today's perspective was almost certainly a step up for women given the evil of those days. Inter generational curses - I believe this is a misinterpretation of the bible verse. I understand the verse to mean that abused children become abusive parents.
Letting everyone "do their own thing" is a flawed philosophy. Occasionally in these days some little fetid pocket of multi generational incest is uncovered and the people institutionalized for their own good. I know you approve of that sort of interference.
If you are interested I can work to uncovered some more detailed arguments about the issues you raise.
Looking through the lens of current times your outrage is understandable. But some of your assertions are incorrect. The sacrifice of an animal was done quickly and cleanly. No torture in any sense. It was done to change the hearts of people - to make them understand their sins required repentance. Treatment of women - What may sound terrible from today's perspective was almost certainly a step up for women given the evil of those days. Inter generational curses - I believe this is a misinterpretation of the bible verse. I understand the verse to mean that abused children become abusive parents.
Letting everyone "do their own thing" is a flawed philosophy. Occasionally in these days some little fetid pocket of multi generational incest is uncovered and the people institutionalized for their own good. I know you approve of that sort of interference.
If you are interested I can work to uncovered some more detailed arguments about the issues you raise.
You're outnumbered. The Hell concept has been taught for eons. Everything else you're saying is pure speculation in order for it to sound good or make sense to you. In all honesty though, faith is contingent upon an entire system of speculation as the two words are nearly interchangeable. I'm more interested in rigid precepts and rules/outcomes. But the concept of annihilation seems to be a somewhat new approach to the contradicting problem endless torture creates for an "all-loving" deity. I stumbled across that concept while researching universal salvation during the final hours of my faith.
I have my views and beliefs and it will never be changed based off message board fodder. Probably the same for most people on here....
However, I do find it comical that those who subscribe to the belief that man made God in an attempt to have moral governance try so hard to eradicate what they believe man put in place. If the only thing holding back someone from harming you (theft,murder,rape,etc) is an ideological belief that one day they will be judged based on their life and face the consequence of eternal damnation, why would you want to strip them of that? Its not a pure utopia like John Lennon sings about in Imagine. If man did make religion it was out of necessity because government couldn't control the people. We're not just talking Christianity here but Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Ancient Religions, etc. Aside from the extremist in every religion, there are messages of peace, love, understanding, forgiveness, and generosity. What world doesn't need that? People may reject a religion but their own morality is shaped and influenced by said religion. So though they may not believe they are governed by a religion, but their beliefs of what is right and wrong is based of the culture in which they are raised.
However, I do find it comical that those who subscribe to the belief that man made God in an attempt to have moral governance try so hard to eradicate what they believe man put in place. If the only thing holding back someone from harming you (theft,murder,rape,etc) is an ideological belief that one day they will be judged based on their life and face the consequence of eternal damnation, why would you want to strip them of that? Its not a pure utopia like John Lennon sings about in Imagine. If man did make religion it was out of necessity because government couldn't control the people. We're not just talking Christianity here but Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Ancient Religions, etc. Aside from the extremist in every religion, there are messages of peace, love, understanding, forgiveness, and generosity. What world doesn't need that? People may reject a religion but their own morality is shaped and influenced by said religion. So though they may not believe they are governed by a religion, but their beliefs of what is right and wrong is based of the culture in which they are raised.
Your omnipotent god has also sat idly by and watched millions of innocent children be raped, molested, tortured and killed. Not to mention he gives them horrific birth defects, cancer and even starves them to slowly in misery.
Your god needs a good punch in the face.
Your god needs a good punch in the face.
Santa for adults.
Be good little boys and girls, you dont want a lump of coal for christmas!
Similar threads
