High end AR’s, diminishing returns, and reliability.

[kirk1978]

I haven’t seen much in terms of high end AR talk on here, which is a shame, as there’s a ton of knowledge being stored in people’s heads around here. Ever since getting out of the military I have not been very interested in the AR platform. It’s kinda boring. But I’ve been coming back around a bit, the AK platform has lost a lot of its luster as the ammo prices have skyrocketed and the import restrictions just keep getting worse.

So I would like to school myself up a bit on higher quality AR options, and considerations with all that stuff. Mostly looking at stuff that the AR was originally made for: a solid fighting carbine.

I have a few questions to start things off, but I would be stoked for any other questions being added or any unsolicited advice about the subject.

I am curious about brands. I understand that a lot is qc and engineering that you’re paying for. An Anderson or bushmaster rifle isn’t going to ever come close to a Knights Armament, but what about a BCM vs a KAC? Is SOLGW any good?

Mixing parts: can I expect good results if I say, put a SOLGW or BCM upper on a lower I have laying around, assuming I adjust the buffer weight as needed? Why or why not?

How good is “good enough” for you? Where do you draw the line?

If you had a $1500-1800 budget for a bare rifle, what would you do? Build or buy? What?

I would build a $500-$600 gun and spend the rest on a good optic!

 

[WoodsCraft]

Sig doesn't make a striker fired handgun I'd buy, personally. I carried a P220 for quite a while and really liked it. I just don't care for their new generation polymer guns.

And I really never liked their rifles. Most of their stuff just doesn't feel right to me. But, they sure are popular.

Agreed I love the P220, P226 and P228 but have no use for any striker fired Sig Pistol the P320 / M17 have left me underwhelmed

 

[Gideon]

I do not have any issues with my Palmeto Freedom uppers and my "made" lowers.
Sub moa and reliable.
I do not understand the issue with people wanting to spend money on these AR's as they are not a complicated piece of equipment.

It is entirely possible that a majority of the rifles from any manufacturer could be completely within proper spec and assembled correctly.
The difference is how many are not, and how many man hours they are willing to spend checking each of the specs on the item.
There are plenty of properly built Kias on the road. Doesn't mean I'd take one to the race track.

I own several PSA uppers that I use for training, because I don't care about them getting worn out or broken in practice. A $300 upper that resembles my self defense guns is a useful thing to have.

If you think that a precision machined tool with tens of tolerance specs that are within a few thousandths of an inch is something simple then I'm not sure you're being realistic about what goes into manufacturing such a thing.

 

[rc508pir]

Haven’t in a long time either.

I have a Sig 556 that I love but cant fire it anymore cuz once the springs wear out, thats it. I'll have to get replacements of gun broker (usually actul Swiss spring kits and they are going for a couple hunerd for one set. Nope

Any other parts break and its done as well

 

[HMCS(FMF)Ret.]

I own AR’s, but I don’t shoot them. I have them in my safes for the Zombie Apocalypse. I bought a Daniel Defense DDM4 custom. I consider it my best AR because it looks the prettiest in my safe. I have a Wilson Combat Protector. It’s second best only because it’s made by Wilson, who’s not well known for AR’s. I have a Colt LE6920HB born in 2003 which is a collectors piece and is in a shadow box (only 300 made, and only 134 sold to civilians). That’s 3rd for me cause I just like looking at the roll marks. I just bought a new BCM Recce 11.5 pistol today off Gunbroker. This one is getting used. I agree with the gentleman earlier in the thread that said BCM was getting more expensive. I believe they are, and I think they’re a little overrated. Although as a CQB pistol it shouldn’t matter. I had a chance at a Noveske 10.5 pistol, but I didn’t pull the trigger, which I think is going to haunt me. I didn’t have enough info about Noveske to make a reasonable decision. There you have it. That’s my overwhelmingly intellectual take on AR’s. Oh, wait! Once I was going to buy a LWRC because they had it in a burgundy color. That would have looked great in one of my safes…..pew-pew, pew, pew!

 

[James Abram]

I own a $4K tuned JP, a DD, a few mid tier guns, and a few budget guns. I can tell you from FIRST HAND experience, that there is NO comparison on how they shoot. Sure, they all work and function as designed, but shooting a finely tuned rifle system is like marrying a super model that can cook. It’s really funny how my buddies love their PSA, BC, S&W or Frankenbuild, and it’s just as good as what I shoot…until they shoot mine. I’ve heard “holy ****” more times than I can count on two hands. I’ll take my smooth, solid, quiet (relative), accurate JP over any gun I have, every day of the week and twice on days ending in Y.

 

[TedKennedy]

It is entirely possible that a majority of the rifles from any manufacturer could be completely within proper spec and assembled correctly.
The difference is how many are not, and how many man hours they are willing to spend checking each of the specs on the item.
There are plenty of properly built Kias on the road. Doesn't mean I'd take one to the race track.

I own several PSA uppers that I use for training, because I don't care about them getting worn out or broken in practice. A $300 upper that resembles my self defense guns is a useful thing to have.

If you think that a precision machined tool with tens of tolerance specs that are within a few thousandths of an inch is something simple then I'm not sure you're being realistic about what goes into manufacturing such a thing.

My son is a Kia mechanic. He would argue that point passionately.

As for the ARs - I have only fairly recently come out of the closet and started shooting one. It's fairly high-end upper, poverty lower, with good optics. It's works every time, and is very accurate. It's really amazing how open and helpful all the AR owners and builders are, and it's an endless array of options when it comes to artificial enhancement devices. There's a plastic add-on for every desire, and most hardcore AR folks own many ARs in different configurations, which I guess makes them polyARmorous. It truly is a welcoming group that doesn't judge, and I'm proud to say that even though I use to discriminate against AR owners, I'm now an ally.

 

[diggler1833]

I haven’t seen much in terms of high end AR talk on here, which is a shame, as there’s a ton of knowledge being stored in people’s heads around here. Ever since getting out of the military I have not been very interested in the AR platform. It’s kinda boring. But I’ve been coming back around a bit, the AK platform has lost a lot of its luster as the ammo prices have skyrocketed and the import restrictions just keep getting worse.

So I would like to school myself up a bit on higher quality AR options, and considerations with all that stuff. Mostly looking at stuff that the AR was originally made for: a solid fighting carbine.

I have a few questions to start things off, but I would be stoked for any other questions being added or any unsolicited advice about the subject.

I am curious about brands. I understand that a lot is qc and engineering that you’re paying for. An Anderson or bushmaster rifle isn’t going to ever come close to a Knights Armament, but what about a BCM vs a KAC? Is SOLGW any good?

Mixing parts: can I expect good results if I say, put a SOLGW or BCM upper on a lower I have laying around, assuming I adjust the buffer weight as needed? Why or why not?

How good is “good enough” for you? Where do you draw the line?

If you had a $1500-1800 budget for a bare rifle, what would you do? Build or buy? What?

I just kind of glanced at a few responses as this thread got busy in a hurry.

My Home Defense and Home Offense (basically a stored rifle with a couple loaded mags for whatever) are Daniel Defense DDM4V7s. 5-10 years ago, you could get one for around $1300 if you shopped enough. Seems like they have never come back down much since 2020. My back door rifle is an FN DMR II. I consider those to be a good balance between reliability and cost.

There are advantages in some regard to factory rifles that use better (more expensive too) parts, and test their parts to reduce the chance of breakage. There are differences between quality of metals used and in heat treatment of basic rifles and rifles that frequently twice as much (think 6061 vs 7076 aluminum, carpenter 158 bolt steel vs 9310 etc...). Hammer forged or cut rifled barrels vs button rifled, 416R vs. 4130, M4 furniture vs. Gucci stuff. The list goes on and on.

True, if you put 100 rounds downrange per year, the chances of breaking anything are greatly reduced. This is where the owner has to determine their needs/wants and usage, and try to match that up with budget.

my hog guns are assembled by me with the parts that I specifically want. Usually that is because I want a different cartridge than .223/5.56.

I have had zero issues with any small frame I've ever put together, but there is more standardization of parts in small frame guns. The large frame ("AR-10") stuff is different, and you can find yourself with incompatible parts if you don't do your research ahead of time.

Adjustable gas blocks, buffers and buffer springs are all used to adjust the ejection and feeding. Usually you can make most guns run well with enough tinkering of those parts (assuming that there aren't problems elsewhere).

A good answer here would take volumes, so I've obviously missed a lot in my brevity. Hope it helps some, and I saw some good info posted already too.

 

[KurtM]

Outside of the one mention of J.P. I don't really see any high end ARs being talked about

 

[JD8]

Outside of the one mention of J.P. I don't really see any high end ARs being talked about