How old do you think you’ll live to?

[okcBob]

Society is dictating what the doctor is allowed to do. Exceed that "guideline" by one stinking pill, and they can get jailed and lose their livelihood FOR ONE STINKING PILL!

Not true. First of all it’s not a pill. Pain control regimen can be a combination of oral meds and a fentanyl patch or a continuous infusion of opioids, etc. There is no specific dosage that will dictate what the doc can prescribe as different patients require different drugs/dosage to reach the therapeutic effect. A 240lb guy generally needs more pain meds than a 90lb woman would need. So if that “guideline” is 10mg morphine, that dose might kill the tiny woman, but not be enough for the large man. So, any specific dosage number limit is illogical.

I think the argument here is about euthanasia.

I’m guessing your point is docs can’t prescribe enough pain meds to overdose a hospice patient & cause death, but we put animals out of their suffering that way. And sometimes euthanasia for hospice patients is the only way to prevent needless suffering. But that’s illegal, in OK anyway.

My point is that you can achieve adequate pain control on hospice without overdosing & causing death with the current meds & best practices that are available today. So, society is not preventing docs from relieving pain by some unknown guideline. The tools are there, but the doc has to know how to use them. Apparently. some docs dont & people suffer needlessly. But that’s on the doc, not society

 

[okcBob]

https://www.okmedicalboard.org/download/884/Opioid_Best_Practices.pdf

Found some OK opioid prescription laws online. They do put limits on how opioids are prescribed, but in the “excluded” section Hospice is excluded from the laws, among others. And since we are talking about hospice end of life pain control, these strict opioid laws don’t apply.

 

[264killer]

Well I made it to 83. Been out in the shop mounting 45/75R/17 tires for my JEEP GLADIATOR. Came to the house when the temp hit 90.

 

[dennishoddy]

Bullshat. Both my parents passed away peacefully on hospice because they had a competent doc adjusting pain & anxiety control as needed.
If any patient is suffering with pain & the doc says there’s nothing he can do because the dose is the max allowed (?), the doc should be sued for malpractice. There’s no reason for anyone to die in pain with the technology & pharmaceuticals available today. Society has avenues for peaceful deaths, but i don’t blame society for one incompetent doc.
BTW, I also worked as a hospice clinician, so I’ve experienced the dying process as both a clinician and as a family member with dying parents.

There were four doctors involved over a period of 10 years between deaths. Hospice was also involved in three. Your experience is much different than mine. I'm glad yours went peacefully. Mine didn't. Lung cancer sucks.

 

[dennishoddy]

Society is dictating what the doctor is allowed to do. Exceed that "guideline" by one stinking pill, and they can get jailed and lose their livelihood FOR ONE STINKING PILL!

This is true. The only thing my parents, and the wife's parents were given was morphine. I had to sign for the pills with Hospice when dad decided to die at home. Upon his death, the hospice nurse at arrival asked for the pill bottle first thing. Counted out the pills against the dosage per day and had me sign that the count was correct. Meaning we didn't overdose or underdose what the doctor prescribed.
I was at Mom's bedside when she passed moaning and moving around the bed in a nursing home. The staff administered the medications recommended by the doctor. Obviously not a peaceful death.
I won't go into the wife's parent's situation as that would be her decision to disclose, not mine, but I was bedside at both with her.

 

[okcBob]

Not true. Hospice is exempt from the md opiates guidelines/restriction. No doc will be jailed for giving one extra pill to a hospice patient.
It sounds like pain control regimen wasn’t effective & either the hospice nurse didn’t update the doc to adjust meds or the doc didn’t want to adjust meds while knowing the patient was in pain-which seems unlikely. Very sad either way.
The counting of the pills right away (besides the requirement to document controlled meds) is also most likely a company policy to ensure family members don’t steal narcotics,, at least it was for us. I recall narcs/benzos like to go missing, especially in some neighborhoods

 

[dennishoddy]

Not true. Hospice is exempt from the md opiates guidelines/restriction. No doc will be jailed for giving one extra pill to a hospice patient.
It sounds like pain control regimen wasn’t effective & either the hospice nurse didn’t update the doc to adjust meds or the doc didn’t want to adjust meds while knowing the patient was in pain-which seems unlikely.
The counting of the pills is most likely a company policy to ensure family members don’t steal narcotics,, at least it was for us. When I worked hospice, we never had family members sign anything, but we had to account for any narcs/benzos, as they like to go missing, especially in some neighborhoods

How can you say not true, yet confirm that counting pills is a company policy a few sentences later?
Of course it's to confirm that the patient is not overdosed or underdosed or some pills were stolen by someone.
Nobody mentioned anything about doctors being jailed?

 

[KOPBET]

How can you say not true, yet confirm that counting pills is a company policy a few sentences later?
Of course it's to confirm that the patient is not overdosed or underdosed or some pills were stolen by someone.
Nobody mentioned anything about doctors being jailed?

Consider the source...

 

[CHenry]

How can you say not true, yet confirm that counting pills is a company policy a few sentences later?
Of course it's to confirm that the patient is not overdosed or underdosed or some pills were stolen by someone.
Nobody mentioned anything about doctors being jailed?

It sounds like different hospice company policy either regulates opiates or they are more forgiving but with open laws allowing whatever. I believe this. Had a friend who's brother was suffering from cancer and he told my friend Darrell, it's time.
So Darrel gave him a real high dose of morphine. He went to sleep for the last time.
No one ever asked questions.
There is a large gray area based on the hospice company policies.
Sounds pretty simple, cut n dry, to me.

 

[1shott]

Family history, 70-75.

mom, her mom and moms half brother, 63, 62 and 61. Moms dad made it to 94 IIRC.

Dad made it to 74, his half brother late 60s.

One set of great grandparents made to their 90s. Dads mother is still alive, 94 or 95 IIRC.

Its all over the board. I take after mom and her side with health issues, so I am betting between 70-75, Maybe longer as long as quality of life is there.
I know I will never retire, I tend to shut down when I have time off, work keeps me up and moving, so its probably best for me to keep working, at least part time as I age.