Is there a good piston ar out there?

[jtischauser]

I guess your a DI guy. i have actually been looking into both. but i herd the piston has a little more wieght up front so you misght be able to stay on target a little easier. but the di wieghs less so u can swing it around to target better. I know the bolt carrier stays cleanier and cooler on the piston but the di has no carrier tilt problem.
whats your opinion on the pros and cons of the two?

I really don't know that much about the gas piston AR's to be completely honest. What I do know is that I shoot a lot of 3 gun competitions and these competitions put the AR through a lot of use and abuse. You don't win without a good reliable rifle and I don't see piston driven AR's taking the place of any DI rifles. That is the sole reason I wouldn't buy one. If you look back at the optics and rifle systems the military adopts a lot of those cool new items are spun out of the competitive shooting scene.

If your heart is set on a Piston AR that CMMG that Olyeller has is a great buy with no taxes on a brand new rifle. I fondeled it the other day when I was picking up a pistol and liked what I saw.

 

[jtischauser]

If you want learn about AR's from some shooters you should come out to the big rifle match on the 20th at OKC gun club. You're welcome to shoot my JP enterprises CTR-02 which IS the best AR money can buy. Heck if you want to shoot the match Id be happy to let you use my MP-15R. I'll sell you some 5.45x39mm ammo to run in it for $.14/round. You can't reload 223 for that price.

 

[SMS]

If you look back at the optics and rifle systems the military adopts a lot of those cool new items are spun out of the competitive shooting scene.

Interesting statement, can you elaborate? Which rifles and optics? That's one connection I never noticed. Red dots maybe?

FWIW, the military is very close to tranistioning to a piston/tappet system in the SCAR or something similar (IF, big IF, it proves successful in the field and it can get past the black rifle mafia) which would mean DI will become a very long serving, yet solitary, system sandwiched between four gas operated yet non-DI systems. Not to mention the multitude of other military weapons currently in use that are not DI as well.

DI works, but that doesn't mean (and many other weapons prove) that DI is not the only best answer...especially not just because it's heavily used in competition. Wheel guns and bolt actions were used for decades in competition and look where we are today.

 

[N3TD3ViL]

...You're welcome to shoot my JP enterprises CTR-02 which IS the best AR money can buy.

I'm new here so please don't mistake my inquiry as someone trying to start an argument. I'm curious to know why you feel the JP Enterprises AR-15 is the best AR-15 that money can buy, and what makes it so much better than the manufacturers that I listed above. I want to purchase an AR-15 in the near future so I'm interested in what you or anyone else has to say about them. I own a POF .308 and I'm leaning toward a POF .223 or DPMS but I'm open to suggestions if a valid argument/point can be made as to why I should consider a different brand.

P.S.- I don't want to come across as hijacking the thread because I'm sure the OP would also care to know why JP Enterprises is supposedly the best AR that money can buy.

 

[JD8]

I've been looking at piston systems also, can't decide whether I want a SCAR or the LWRC or???

 

[Wormydog1724]

My bro just picked up the ruger sr556. Came with chrome bcg, Troy rail, and Troy buis. After shooting it myself, I'm in love. I really really like it alot. Granted it's the only piston ar I have shot, but which other rifle can you get a $1000 piston rifle? , minus the Troy sights and rail of course-which you will be putting on later anyways.

 

[BigDiezel]

There are lots out there and should run very well. Really just depends on how much you want to spend . I have ran some CMMG, POF, PWS all ran great.. Will be getting in an STS on Thursday, we will see how it goes. Should shoot exactly like the PWS upper/rifles , they build their stuff.

 

[KurtM]

Yes revolvers and bolt actions were used in competition for years, but we are talking a VERY different type of competition, bull'seye/High Power. These "competitions", while accuracy inducing, both of shooter and platform have almost nothing to do with action shooting/3-gun which was started back in 1980 by S.O.F. magazine. Up untill the very end of S.O.F. World Championship 3-Gun in 2003, there were ALWAYS teams form the Navy and Army ( I first met Kyle Lamb at the 1995 S.O.F) and they were there to learn from us. Yes I can state that ACOGS and RED DOTS came directly from the action shooting competition world, so did Muzzel Brakes just like the ones found on the MK 12 rifles today made by Ops-Inc.

The piston gun is much more noticable in recoil and there is no easy way to tame them to the level of a RIFLE length D.I. system, and there are no lightened carriers to help alieviate the violent smack and consequent bump against the buffer. The other problem with the piston guns is that they tend to hammer themselves apart right where the barrel attaches, now this isn't very common but it does happen more than any of the piston guys would like to admit. It was said best by Dick Butell Jr. ( His dad was the president of Fairchild Aircraft and part owner of Armalite) It wasn't a great idea in 1961, the next batch in the mid 70s wasn't the answer and round 3 seems to be doing a bit better but time will tell.

What makes a J.P. the best rifle? Well the upper and lower are MUCH stronger and rigide than any Mil Spec unit. This thickness and rigidity makes for a very tight and well supported barrel, which makes for great accuracy. They are kept to minimum dimentions and they MAKE their own bolt carriers to very exacting measurments, so you get a form fit bolt/carrier/upper. The lowers have a nice big mag well to assist speed mag changes and they have about a 2 1/2# trigger right from the factory. The Barrels are all cryoed, hand fit and lapped....I haven't seen one yet that wasn't a 1/2 moa gun with good ammo. They come wiht a V-Tac freefloat tube and adjustable gas system and a very effective comp. They also come with an integrated mount for ACOGS so you don't need any type of mount for one, it bolts directly to the receiver. They come with a Leitner Weise Defence enhanced bolt and are all cut with a Wylde Chamber they come with 1X8 barrel and most of them remain sub-moa rifles well into the 12-17 thousand round range. (The A.M.U. had one with 25,000 rounds on it and it was still shooting 7/8 M.O.A. These are ther rifles the Army A.M.U. uses and they could build anything for themselves they want, but can't match J.P.s product...and that is from one of the head A.M.U. Gunsmiths). These rifles would compair against Mil Spec rifles like the space shuttle with a "mil spec" P-51 Mustang Visit John's web sit at jprifles.com

 

[N3TD3ViL]

Here's the spec sheet for the POF rifles.

http://www.pof-usa.com/p308/p308.htm

 

[Wormydog1724]

Kurt... You win.