Oilfield Layoffs

[1krr]

I really wish somebody somewhere would show me just ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of an oil/gas, oil or coal company receiving a subsidy from our government. Just one! This fallacy that our conventional energy producers get "subsidies" is just --->


Merriam-Webster (emphasis mine):

money that is paid usually by a government to keep the price of a product or service low or to help a business or organization to continue to function

Full Definition of SUBSIDY

: a grant or gift of money: as
a : a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation
b : money granted by one state to another
c : a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public

Clever except the government defines subsidies specifically focused on energy as “subsidies that are provided by the federal government, provide a financial benefit with an identifiable federal budget impact, and are specifically targeted at energy markets.” The oft-quoted "alternatives would die without subsidies" oil industry propaganda is refering to tax credits.

But if you want to cut those out, that's ok. The fossil fuel industry took in nearly $750MM in 2010 in direct subsidies from the government mostly on "energy independance grants" whilst making record profits. You are right though, the renewables took in nearly twice that, a whopping $1.4B. Damn that government and it's picking winners. Except for the fact that in the first 15 years of life, the oil/gas industry consumed .5% of the federal budget in industry subsidies while modern renewables consume less than 0.1% or 1/5th the amount oil and gas comsumed in its early years. That winner picking business kind of pissed the coal guys off back in the day I hear...

http://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests/subsidy/pdf/subsidy.pdf

http://i.bnet.com/blogs/dbl_energy_subsidies_paper.pdf

 

[30BulletHoles]

There isn't a capitalist reason, just an energy monopoly reason. But the good news is that higher prices make alternatives more attactive. They haven't had a century to reach the economies of scale the oil/gas/coal has and are already rivaling the end user prices for energy. Best case scenario (except for family farms which are being killed by energy prices) is that the prices spike, we get people who've been dumped by their companies back to work, and continue pushing alternatives. In 10 years as those energy sources get online and there are more and more efficient tranport options, people in oil/gas have time to plan for it. If they blew their bonuses on 70k trucks pulling 100k boats, tough ****, it sucks to be hungry. But if they save it and figure out that standing up a wind turbine isn't that different from standing up a rig, the have work until the day they retire.

I've tried to resist but can no longer keep my mouth shut.

You obviously don't know **** about the oilfield since the only thing you have to offer in a thread about layoffs in a specific industry is the fact that rigs are are stood stood up and laid down. The rest is the usual dribble about how working in an alternative energy sector is somehow morally superior to the oil and gas industry.

The oil and gas industry has been a financial boon to people outside the industry as long as the oilfield has been around. They sure as hell aren't building hotels, retail stores, restaraunts etc. out here as fast as they can for the last 5 years because of wind energy.

It pisses me off when any other industry in this country goes in the tank and it's a crisis, so sad, bla bla bla...but when it's the oil patch goin south all people say is "should've saved your money". Bet people weren't saying that when the gm plant closed in okc.

 

[vvvvvvv]

but when it's the oil patch goin south all people say is "should've saved your money"

Except the fossil fuel field, like most commodities, is reasonably predictably cyclical, especially natural gas, which is what directly affects most operations around here.

 

[dennishoddy]

You typed all that from a phone? God bless you...

I'm worried about hijacking this thread tooooooooo much but would love to continue this converation. I'm curious as an operator, how you feel about distributed generation for solar.

I was in the fast checkout line at Walmart when I put up that thread.......Great job Walmart.....

Your an operator of what/where?

BTW, your post only talked about subsidies for oil.

The fact that oil gets subsidies has not a single thing to do with the wind subsidies. That's another subject/topic to discuss.

 

[1krr]

I've tried to resist but can no longer keep my mouth shut.

You obviously don't know **** about the oilfield since the only thing you have to offer in a thread about layoffs in a specific industry is the fact that rigs are are stood stood up and laid down. The rest is the usual dribble about how working in an alternative energy sector is somehow morally superior to the oil and gas industry.

The oil and gas industry has been a financial boon to people outside the industry as long as the oilfield has been around. They sure as hell aren't building hotels, retail stores, restaraunts etc. out here as fast as they can for the last 5 years because of wind energy.

It pisses me off when any other industry in this country goes in the tank and it's a crisis, so sad, bla bla bla...but when it's the oil patch goin south all people say is "should've saved your money". Bet people weren't saying that when the gm plant closed in okc.

Naa, don't keep your mouth shut, this is all in good fun. I've said several times that I don't wish anything bad on the guys in the oil patch but there is a vast difference between hoping people can feed their families and taking pride in seeing a corrupt system fail. I've also never said anything about alternatives being morally superior. What I have said, several times and posted info about is guys who are tired of the oil industry BS modifying their skills to another energy industry that is out there. The fact of the matter is that they do pay well and they are well known for being unstable employment. So if you piss all your money away on toys and don't save for the future in an unstable industry when you could have, don't knock taxes when you go on food stamps.

Then again, I can say this because I've been there. When I worked for the oil/gas industry, I bought a house that cost me about 50% less than I made in a year. I could have afforded just about any car on the road but I had a used camaro and mustang that I built up myself. My wife and I piled our cash away knowing that in the oil industry, good times are followed by bad. When the layoffs finally hit, I had cash and could ride it out until the next gig. After working back in the industry for a while, I got tired of the BS and quit forever.

Bear in mind that my distaste for oil/gas is from working in it for several years. The amount of fraud and propaganda I saw happening would make lots of 3rd world dictators proud. I also understand the increadible personal pressure employees are under to buy into the culture and drink the coolaid. And this is why I don't understand guys who get laid off and their lives shaken up defending the wreckless industry that put them there. Business is business, sure but it's also business to point at something and say "that's wrong" when it is. And it seems like poetic justice when a guy from the oil patch starts feeding his family with income earned from oil/gas's competition like wind or solar. Hopefully that explains my position better and if any of you guys getting laid off want some help learning a new skill, I'll be happy to step up. I've been there.

 

[1krr]

I was in the fast checkout line at Walmart when I put up that thread.......Great job Walmart.....

Your an operator of what/where?

No I meant you, working for a system operator.

 

[dennishoddy]

No, not an operator. I was a Instrumentation and controls technician with a certification in EPA emissions. According to the EPA regs, if I ever falsified any data I could go to jail. The plant manager would also go to jail, so when I got my cert, the PM told me that he did not want to go to jail, and I didn't either.
I spent a lot of time in the control room watching the live feed of how NG, wind and hydro could only supplement base load, not take it over.

BTW there are 14000 wind turbines in California that are not turning now.

in California’s Altamont Pass, Tehachapin, and San Gorgonio areas and elsewhere around the world are testimony to the continuing and accelerating failure of hope over experience, funded with taxpayer monies. And these areas were selected as being “in the best wind spots on earth,” which are now, according to Natural News writer Jonathan Benson, just “spinning, post-industrial junk which generates nothing but bird kills.”

 

[SoonerP226]

Except the fossil fuel field, like most commodities, is reasonably predictably cyclical, especially natural gas, which is what directly affects most operations around here.

Anyone who has lived in Oklahoma since the late '70s and was paying any attention at all has seen, first hand, the boom and bust cycle of the oil and gas industry, whether you were directly involved in it or not. (Or am I the only one who remembers the gallows humor that was pervasive in the early '80s, like "will the last person leaving Oklahoma please turn out the lights" and "I bank at FDIC--new branches opening daily!")

 

[Shadowrider]

Thankyou Veggie, you made my point exceptionally well.

Point being that the .gov rewrites history to suit it's purpose, and we see that they are rewriting the dictionary too! Only when it suits them of course.



1krr, I tell you what lets do. Lets get rid of all the tax breaks for ALL energy, not just fossil, but everything. While we are at it, lets get rid of basically all federal regulatory oversight too. Of course we keep the common sense ones, like dumping **** in rivers and such, but we let them have a free playing field. Then lets see who the market consumer purchases from. IOW, a truly fair contest. Deal? I'd go for that anyday and everyday.

 

[elwoodtrix]

lpg stations are being installed at my Company as we speak... will they get some money from the gov. to do that? credits??