Ok, why can't I hit anything???

[O4L]

I really like the rifle, but I am already wanting a better trigger!

Yeah, I found out the same thing real quick with my AR. If you want consistent accuracy at longer distances a better trigger makes a real difference.

 

[NikatKimber]

I don't know the exact, I'll have to measure, but the Crossfire II is on a PEPR mount, in case ya'll know offhand how high that is.

I really like the rifle, but I am already wanting a better trigger!

Most standard AR scope mounts are ~1.5" above the receiver rail.

 

[oneof79]

Ok, cool. So this is a common problem and I'm just inexperienced with zeroing rifles at any distance. Good to know... it's obvious I am going to need to buy a boresight and a rangefinder as well.

So.... when you guys are building or fine-tuning for super-long shots, say 400-1000 yards, where do you zero it? I assume that zeroing out that far is probably too inconsistent given range conditions and ammo variability, unless you are using fine-tuned super match or handloaded ammo built-to-purpose?

Obviously I have a lot to learn... I am excited though, it was nice using my first ever self-built long-range rifle and seeing good results - meaning it functioned perfectly, and I got good accuracy at 25 yards. lol

I'm a n00b. lol

Most guys that shoot long distances have a different "zero" for each yardage. Being as inexperienced as I am, I know with my AR at 100 yards I'll have 0 elevation, at 600 yards I'll have 48 clicks or 12 minutes of elevation. At 600 yards 12 minutes is 72". The sight setting for my Garand is a little different. At 100 I am 6 clicks up and at 600 I am about 30 clicks up.

Something to think about;

If you have a rifle that will shoot all of your bullets through a one inch hole at 100 yards. With the same rifle your group will be at best 10 inches at 1000 yards and probably bigger.

 

[Hump66]

Check out the 25m BSZ target here

The 25m BSZ will put you "on" at 300m. A 50m zero will put you on at ~200m.

The key here is that if you zero at 25m, you should get a good hit on target anywhere out to 300m with a center mass hold.

When shooting M885:
Z @ 50m: 25m -1.3", 50m 0.0", 100m +1.7", 150m +1.8", 200m +.2", 250m -3.4"

Z @ 25m: 25m 0.0", 50m +2.7", 100m +7.2", 150m +10.1" 200m +11.3", 250m +10.4"

The numbers still seem screwy to me. I didn't think there was any more than maybe 4-5 inches difference in POI inside of 300.

 

[Sanford]

... it's obvious I am going to need to buy a boresight and a rangefinder as well.

As far as bore sighting goes - I get the best results going old school and actually sighting through the bore, especially since it's so easy with AR-format rifles. Just take the upper receiver off and put it in/on a solid rest, stand, vise, etc. then look through the bore and center it on a point of reference that's easy to see - I'll usually pick something like a bright red fire hydrant about a block away. Then - being careful not to move the upper - look through and adjust the sights (iron or optic) to be centered on the same fire hydrant. When you're done you should be pretty close - on paper at least - especially if the object you were using is approximately the same distance that you plan to use for your base zero. If you get the bore sight close enough, the only mechanical factors remaining to compensate for will be the characteristics of the specific gun and ammunition that you're using.

 

[NikatKimber]

The numbers still seem screwy to me. I didn't think there was any more than maybe 4-5 inches difference in POI inside of 300.

Looks right to me. With a 50yd zero vs a 25yd zero, the angle doubles. If you ignore the "zero" line, and count from the muzzle; with a 25yd zero the bullet "rises" 2.75 inches in 25yds vs a rise of only 1.375 inches in the same 25yds with a 50yd zero. If you ignore the curve, that means at 50yds, it will have traveled "up" 5.5 inches (again, vs 2.75" for a 50yd zero), and at 100, nearly 11 inches (5.5inches w/ 50yd zero); or 8.25 inches above the 25yd zero. Bullet drop (the curve) means that instead of 8.25 inches, you are only 6.75 inches high at 100yds. At 80yds, then, with a 25yd zero, you are over 5" high. Thus, shooting an 8" target with POA in the center, puts TR cleanly off the paper.




Soooo.....

TR, try aiming at the bottom of the 8" plate @ 80yds. Should put you just above center. Then you know if your zero is right, or if something wacky is going on.

 

[ldp4570]

Ok, cool. So this is a common problem and I'm just inexperienced with zeroing rifles at any distance. Good to know... it's obvious I am going to need to buy a boresight and a rangefinder as well.

So.... when you guys are building or fine-tuning for super-long shots, say 400-1000 yards, where do you zero it? I assume that zeroing out that far is probably too inconsistent given range conditions and ammo variability, unless you are using fine-tuned super match or handloaded ammo built-to-purpose?

Obviously I have a lot to learn... I am excited though, it was nice using my first ever self-built long-range rifle and seeing good results - meaning it functioned perfectly, and I got good accuracy at 25 yards. lol

I'm a n00b. lol

Now this is just an old stupid US Army grunt, and maybe things have changed, but we always started (WITH IRON SIGHTS) at 25yds. Put three rnds touching in the Canadian bull, and your rifle was zeroed to hit dead center at 250yd. Anything farther beyond 300yds(you still had to raise the front sight, or your rounds would hit dirt right in front of your target[man sized target]) you would start having to adjust the rear sight sight(A2/3/4). After you got done learning how to shoot with iron sights, then you took on the task of working up a scope if needed.
Unless you got this scope jacked up a mile or two on top of the rifle or something is broke/loose, your group at 25yds with that rifle should be one tiny spot, with the same spot at 80yds(maybe a little higher on the plate). That leaves one other variable(YOU). Your not keeping the same cheek weild, Creeping. It could be a number of things. It would be a good idea to have one of the guys on here (would love to make the trip[SE OKC], but its a two day trip due to my neck injury)

 

[uncle money bags]

Hey tR, give this a read over.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=65679

Where in se ok are you?

 

[DDriller]

Most standard AR scope mounts are ~1.5" above the receiver rail.

Mine (6) are all 2.5" - 2.6" above the bore center.

 

[aeropb]

Always like to use a huge ass target to zero with that way things that normally would fly off into neverland show up as holes in unexpected places.