One of my bosses just asked me to procure 200 "No Guns Allowed" signs for our stores.

[WhiteyMacD]

None of your scenarios have anything to do with the constitution. The first amendment doesn't apply to me as a private business owner.

Dear LavendarMist, please re-read ALL my posts.

I am saying the very same thing. If you would kindly review,... I have been saying that your constitutional rights do not extend past my door step. Saying a business owner is anti 2A for putting up gunbuster signs is bullcrap as your 2nd amendment right does not apply on someone else's private property.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

I find my self still conflicted. As a practical matter I don't see that a business owners private property rights should trump one's right to self defense sense by definition business owners actively invite the public on to their property.

On the other hand from a purely theoretical and philosophical point of view ones private property should be sacrosanct and if one wants to enter it you follow the owners rules.

Conundrum - just can't seem to decide or draw a reasonable line.


EDIT: Are we talking concealed carry on to private property or OC? Makes a difference it would seem.

I can understand the conundrum, but its still a matter of your constitutional rights do not exist on my private property. Inviting the public in to conduct business does not transform the property into public domain. The best compromise on that thought would be to consider it quasi-public (which is actually a court decided term from the 60's set ins), but even that says, if the manager or owner asks you to leave... you must leave... ergo not a public place.

 

[LightningCrash]

OK,who do you think you are punishing by not patronizing a business? Do you think that the decision to post the sign was put to a vote with the employees? It was one,or maybe a few on a board,that made that decision.So let's be sure and punish the other 99% of the company who probably don't agree with the policy in the first place.

If only the good people of Montgomery would have had your wisdom conveyed to them in the 50s!

"Who do you think you're punishing by not riding the bus? Do you think the decision on its policy was put to a vote of the employees? It was one, maybe a few on a board that made that decision. So let's be sure and punish the other 99% of the people who probably don't agree with the policies, but enforce them anyway." -- Dr Redding Luther Max Jr.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

If only the good people of Montgomery would have had your wisdom conveyed to them in the 50s!

"Who do you think you're punishing by not riding the bus? Do you think the decision on its policy was put to a vote of the employees? It was one, maybe a few on a board that made that decision. So let's be sure and punish the other 99% of the people who probably don't agree with the policies, but enforce them anyway." -- Dr Redding Luther Max Jr.

LOL. While we are at it, Im kinda tired of being discriminated against for not wearing shoes or a shirt... I mean I wasnt born with them things.

 

[Werewolf]

I can understand the conundrum, but its still a matter of your constitutional rights do not exist on my private property. Inviting the public in to conduct business does not transform the property into public domain. The best compromise on that thought would be to consider it quasi-public (which is actually a court decided term from the 60's set ins), but even that says, if the manager or owner asks you to leave... you must leave... ergo not a public place.

Thanks WhiteyMacD - much food for thought in your responses.

However, I do have one more question.

How is a private property owner harmed if someone with a CCW comes on their property and neither they, their patrons nor any others are aware of it. If there is no harm does that not change the equation?

 

[WhiteyMacD]

Thanks WhiteyMacD - much food for thought in your responses.

However, I do have one more question.

How is a private property owner harmed if someone with a CCW comes on their property and neither they, their patrons nor any others are aware of it. If there is no harm does that not change the equation?

First, you're talking to a guy who carries regardless of signage (only exception are the places explicitly referred to in the SDA). So, if you are asking who does it harm, what do you think I think?

So if you trim away most of the Advocotus Diaboli,... my mention of Quasi-Public is more of my actual belief. I am welcome there, if by some freak accident they find out I am carrying,... they can ask me to leave,... I will respect that request, and will continue to patron the store, WHILE carrying, and hopefully do a better job of concealment.

 

[jarhead983]

First, you're talking to a guy who carries regardless of signage (only exception are the places explicitly referred to in the SDA). So, if you are asking who does it harm, what do you think I think?

... I will respect that request, and will continue to patron the store, WHILE carrying, and hopefully do a better job of concealment.

... BTW, I am totally with you as to ignoring their signs. So far, I haven't been thrown out of any place...yet. Then again, I'm pretty careful about printing. Just another part of the responsibility that goes with carrying a gun.

My thoughts exactly, I ignore all signs I see, except at the places I can't legally carry, post office, schools, federal buildings

I have no problem with ignoring the signs too. ...

..Like I've said over and over,just ignore the signs and move on.Do so at your work at your own risk.

Not condemning anyone in the quotes. I just find it curious that so many have the moral conviction while there is no real repercussions for their actions, and willingly trample on a property owners Constitutional right to limit who comes onto their property, but avoid like the plaque, the areas that are off limits that are completely counter to the Constitution, such as the post office or other areas listed in the SDA such as political rallies. Public places where our RKBA is being infringed.

So basically we will stand proud against any encroachment on our perceived rights on private property, even while actively ignoring the property owners Constitutional rights, but we will cower when it comes to actually standing up to actual unconstitutional statutes and laws, because we could get in trouble for that. Excuse me Patrick Henry, if you would be so kind as stepping to the side for these true American patriots.

Again, I'm not trying to start anything with anyone, I myself have said and done the same things in the past. But I have come to this current philosophy due to the conversations read on this site. It has caused me to study and contemplate the issues and this is where I'm at, I will champion our Constitutional rights, even when no one is looking, and I will ignore the unconstitutional laws. (Read into that what you will). I will do what I can to eliminate the later, but unless there is a true uprising, it will never happen. I do not wish for or advocate an uprising against our gov't. I'm in the gray area of knowing things aren't right and not knowing how to fix it. And before anyone asks, I am not interested in joining a militia or any anti-gov't entity. I still think we had a great system, its just been hijacked.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

Not condemning anyone in the quotes. I just find it curious that so many have the moral conviction while there is no real repercussions for their actions, and willingly trample on a property owners Constitutional right to limit who comes onto their property, but avoid like the plaque, the areas that are off limits that are completely counter to the Constitution, such as the post office or other areas listed in the SDA such as political rallies. Public places where our RKBA is being infringed.

You are absolutely correct, but its not worth losing the ability to carry in order to prove a point.

So basically we will stand proud against any encroachment on our perceived rights on private property, even while actively ignoring the property owners Constitutional rights, but we will cower when it comes to actually standing up to actual unconstitutional statutes and laws, because we could get in trouble for that. Excuse me Patrick Henry, if you would be so kind as stepping to the side for these true American patriots.

Cower is strong words. What are you doing to change it?

I'll say it again, I consider businesses quasi-public. I can carry there until they ask me to leave. I just dont pay attention to doors or windows. And I literally mean, I DONT PAY ATTENTION. I can honestly tell you, I really never notice whats on the doors to stores.

As far as areas explicitly forbidden under SDA, like you said, its a constitutional infringement. So is all the GCAs, but are you willing to risk 250k, a felony and all the goodies that come with that just to own a FA without paying a tax?

AFWIW, I never claimed to be a patriot. Believing in the CotUS and trying to uphold it as much as lawfully possible has nothing to do with being a patriot.

 

[purplehaze]

It would pain me to re-read all your posts... so i have decided your post must say what i think they say and therefore you are wrong and thus, you owe me an apology.

Dear LavendarMist, please re-read ALL my posts.

I am saying the very same thing. If you would kindly review,... I have been saying that your constitutional rights do not extend past my door step. Saying a business owner is anti 2A for putting up gunbuster signs is bullcrap as your 2nd amendment right does not apply on someone else's private property.

 

[Glocktogo]

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?


Sorry, someone had to do it!