Politics, Politicians, the State Legislature and this board.

[jdagreek]

A week to 10 days ago there was a thread on one of the OSA forums that I took serious issue with. It was a thread where posters were bashing the State Legislature and politicians in general. The post that set me off was one that simply stated the opinion that every member of the legislature was a crook, liar, cheat and on and on. Everyone else on the thread simply piled on.

I am a former member of the State Legislature. I took exception to this statement suggesting that members of the State Legislature were no more crooks cheat and liars than is normal in any profession. I tried to point out that most members are honest, law abiding citizens that are simply serving their constituents and the State of Oklahoma.

The posts that followed were simply more of the "hate" directed at the members of the State Legislature. I have thought about this issue for the last 10 days or so and finally decided to make this post.

Like most all of you, I have a CCL and enjoy all the benefits of guns from hunting, target practice and self and family protection. I grew up on a farm, ranch and was taught guns, gun safety, hunting etc at a very young age.

I am very pro guns. While I would most likely never "open carry" I support open carry for those who would. I would feel much better practicing conceal carry without the worry, concern of accidentally showing. I am a member of the NRA and my local home fishing, gun and hunting club. I have been a member of a sportsman type club since I was 9 years old.

When I was in the State Legislature we passed the bill labeled the "Make My Day." Wayne Cozort of Tulsa, was the House author and I was a co-author of that bill as well were many of my legislative friends.

So, I am not the enemy. Neither were the majority of the members that I served with for some 10 years. And, the majority of the current members of the Oklahoma State Legislature are not enemies either.

The reason I am posting this thread here and now, is that I think the attitude displayed in this thread is a serious negative issue in promoting the kind of progressive gun laws we would like to see. It is an attitude that permeates out society. It is a serious part of the problem.

Gun issues are much like the issue of abortion. Gun law and abortion law are the kind of issues that one is either for or against. There is no room for disagreement ... in the minds of most. With abortion, there are those who simply will never accept anything except a total 100% ban on abortion. With gun law there are those who simply won't accept anything, except zero restrictions on gun use and ownership.

Therein, lies the problem.

I have personally witnessed it on many threads on this site. If you have a differing opinion on any part of or interpretation of the 2nd Amendment than you are the enemy. If you believe a requirement for training as part of the CCL is a good thing, then you are the enemy. If you believe that a background check before getting a CCL is a good thing then you are the enemy. If you don't take the hard line view on the 2nd Amendment, than you are the enemy

Over the last six months I have been told I am the enemy because of the above.

The reason I am doing this long thread is in the interest of furthering the efforts to improve gun law in Oklahoma for all of us. Over the last few months I have made calls on behalf of the effort to have "open carry" in Oklahoma.

I have suggested to the members that I personally know that they take the time to read the forums on this board. I have asked them to simply ignore the negative attitudes that so many here have regarding members of the State Legislature.

I have encouraged them to make contact with the leadership of this site. My thought is that there is great benefit from promoting a more positive attitude towards the State Legislature and it's members in general. Having them read all the negative stuff one can find here is not conducive to promoting the kind of gun law we all want.

I know for a fact, that those with this kind of attitude on issues like guns and abortion are their own worst enemy. They so poison the political process that they make it difficult for their legislative friends to help them.

I would simply hope that people would recognize that making the kinds of changes in gun law that we all want is not an easy process. If you take the hard line, tough guy attitude that it is "all or nothing" then what you will get is "nothing." You will just alienate those who are on your side and poison the process for all of us.

I know there are those members of OSA who are working behind the scenes to promote good progressive gun law. They work hard in this very frustrating process. I know they must get tired of fighting the good battle and then watching some of you do your best to "poison" the process.

I know how they must feel as I have been there, done that.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

With all due respect.
You really don't get it.
Gun control and abortion have nothing to do with each other for starters. So save the press realease nonsense for the press.

All or nothing? Vt Az and Ak have it all... Why can't we, It's OUR right.

Gun control hasn't been the only ball dropped either
Education and public health are dismal along with electric regulation and utilities.

Sorry.... Pitch all you want... I ain't swingin

 

[jdagreek]

With all due respect.
You really don't get it.
Gun control and abortion have nothing to do with each other for starters. So save the press realease nonsense for the press.

All or nothing? Vt Az and Ak have it all... Why can't we, It's OUR right.

Gun control hasn't been the only ball dropped either
Education and public health are dismal along with electric regulation and utilities.

Sorry.... Pitch all you want... I ain't swingin

This is exactly the attitude I am talking about. You are the one that simply doesn't get it.

No, guns and abortion are not the same, except in the political sense. The far right anti-abortion people are just like you. You simply can't accept any view that isn't exactly like yours. Again, therein lies the problem.

You don't understand the politics of guns and abortion, so you simply blame others for the failures. What has your all or nothing approach gotten us?

 

[Dale00]

This is exactly the attitude I am talking about. You are the one that simply doesn't get it.

No, guns and abortion are not the same, except in the political sense. The far right anti-abortion people are just like you. You simply can't accept any view that isn't exactly like yours. Again, therein lies the problem.

You don't understand the politics of guns and abortion, so you simply blame others for the failures. What has your all or nothing approach gotten us?

I don't see that staunch second amendment supporters are to blame for failures to advance open carry/campus concealed carry etc. in the legislature as much as the fear and ignorance of certain powerful people. Somehow we either have to educate those powerful people and change their minds or generate enough support to overpower their influence.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

This is exactly the attitude I am talking about. You are the one that simply doesn't get it.

No, guns and abortion are not the same, except in the political sense. The far right anti-abortion people are just like you. You simply can't accept any view that isn't exactly like yours. Again, therein lies the problem.

You don't understand the politics of guns and abortion, so you simply blame others for the failures. What has your all or nothing approach gotten us?

Maybe this is why your an ex member. I understand politics. What offends us all or nothings out here is the late night sessions and crafty dodges guised as procedurals.

Expect sone of your friends to have free time after the next election

 

[dutchwrangler]

@ jdagreek


What part of the 2A do you and those on 23rd & Lincoln not understand? The right to keep and bear arms is a right granted by our Creator. Who the hell are you people who think you are above Him? And above the people whom you are to serve?

Every law, statute and regulation we have in Oklahoma that hinders or infringes on this natural right is morally wrong, antithecal and as far as I'm concerned (as were the founders of this confederation) null & void. Those who support it are enemies of freedom and Liberty.

Because the government's only way of enforcing such acts via the use of force, we the people of Oklahoma who want to exercise our natural rights are faced with arrest, fines and imprisonment if we attempt to exercise our natural right to bear arms without permits, licenses or your benevolent permission.

Every one of you at the state capital took an oath...

"I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Oklahoma, and that I will not, knowingly, receive, directly or indirectly, any money or other valuable thing, for the performance or nonperformance of any act or duty pertaining to my office, other than the compensation allowed by law; I further swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as _________ to the best of my ability."

Those who do not defend the 2A are in direct violation of this oath. Those who go to their districts to "poll" their constituents on open carry are just playing the politics game. You and they aren't there to do what is right. Or to defend individual liberty. On the contrary, you all are there to empower yourselves and the government machine and diminish individual freedom. You folks are today's King George William Frederick III.

The 2A has already settled the matter no matter what the constituents want. If the people of this state and this nation want to change the 2A, then we have the amending process as outlined in Article V of the US Constitution. But for now, the 2A is the supreme law of the land and the constituents who don't like it simply need to live with it. And you guys need to ball up and state this fact of life to the people who don't like favor open carry or the bearing of arms in general.

I'm sick of the fact that those of us who are law abiding are having our rights infringed and treated like slaves because you folks will not do what is right and immediately trash all the regulations and mandates in place by proclaiming them null and void and in contradiction to the supreme law of the land.

There is no defense of the indefensible.

 

[jdagreek]

I don't see that staunch second amendment supporters are to blame for failures to advance open carry/campus concealed carry etc. in the legislature as much as the fear and ignorance of certain powerful people. Somehow we either have to educate those powerful people and change their minds or generate enough support to overpower their influence.

Dale, I think you are really close. I don't think the issue is the attitude regarding the 2nd Amendment. It is the attitude of the idea that getting it all in a piece of legislation or bust is part of the problem. I do agree that there is some ignorance on the part of some people in political office, including some members of the legislature. However, I do believe that there is some ignorance on the side of the people who simply want what they want and aren't willing to accept that others don't see it their way on an individual piece of legislation.

You are exactly right in that those of us who want to further gun laws have to educate and change the minds of others. In my mind that includes changing the minds of some of the "my way or the highway" crowd. I think there is plenty of ignorance to go around. I strongly suspect that the vast majority of the people on these forums have no idea about how the political process works and how to get something done in the political process. They just have the attitude that when things don't go their way they blame it on the politicians, even the politicians who are their friends.

I know some current members of the legislature get so tired of the attitudes of people like JefPaintHorse that they simply wash their hands of the issue. Ole JefPaintHorse simply thinks "it is his right" when it clearly isn't simply his right. Well people can think that all they want, but it simply isn't reality. If it was simply "his right" we wouldn't even be discussing the issue. The courts would have settled "his right" issue long ago. The facts are that it isn't his right. We have to fix the law to get "the right" he wants.

We need to change JefPaintHorse and his attitude as well as some of the folks with the political power to get what we want. Politics is all about the power and who has it. It is pretty clear that the "gun lobby" in Oklahoma doesn't have the political power to get done what they want. So, we have to get people like JefPaintHorse to pony up and help instead of just getting in the way.

 

[BadgeBunny]

JDAGreek ... before your panties crawl so far up your crack you are chewing them off yourself you might want to take another look at that thread, specifically posts number 32 and 38 ...

Here ... let me link it for you ... http://www.okshooters.com/showthread.php?117052-Our-state-government.&p=1507953#post1507953

Whether you like it or not you are NOT the only person here with extensive experience with politicians ...

Nobody attacked you personally, just like nobody here who posts rants about women are attacking me personally. I will say, though, it does sound like you need to have a hormone panel run ... that or a psych eval ... damn dude ...

BTW, I'm the "enemy" too because I don't believe we need "open carry" ... Nor do I think it is a good idea to do away with the conceal carry laws and let anyone who lives in this great country strap on a gun.

I will be the first to admit that my thought process has a lot to do with how much I know it would impact my husband's job. Nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion on anything ... not on gun control (or the lack thereof), not on whether women are good (or bad), not on whether politicians are the scum of the earth (or not) ...

but for you to take my post (which was my opinion and still stands) and make it out to be a personal attack on you is a bit childish ... Just like me taking a thread on the perils of having a wife to be a personal attack on me.

 

[Dale00]

I think I understand that politics is "the art of compromise" and you have to "go along to get along." The problem here is that a basic human right to self defense has been restricted. It is not a matter of deciding who gets a bridge or their road repaired. I'd compare the second amendment rights movement to the civil rights movement in the 60's. Statesmanship is needed.

 

[seurto]

Why not just put it to a VOTE and let "the people" decide?

This is the part that I do not understand, why "politicians" think they "need" to decide everything "for the people"..

No politics, no compromise, no fuss.. Put it to a statewide vote and be done with it.
Then, those who are for/against can no longer "bash" the politicians for creating laws. As, it would be "the people" deciding the laws in which they wish to live by.

I do distinguish a difference between a politician and a legislator, and do not consider all legislators evil..