Politics, Politicians, the State Legislature and this board.

[SMS]

You don't understand the politics of guns and abortion, so you simply blame others for the failures. What has your all or nothing approach gotten us?

Sounds like you're the one blaming others...and you're the one who doesn't understand.

You say you were in the State government for a decade...what has that gotten us besides the "make my day law"? What did you do for the people of Oklahoma for those 10 years, the same people you now come here to attack?

 

[ldp4570]

Watch your step Leighton.... you see how JDAGreek put me in my place.... :LOL

I hope he can stand the heat in the kitchen!!!!

 

[ldp4570]

Sounds like you're the one blaming others...and you're the one who doesn't understand.

You say you were in the State government for a decade...what has that gotten us besides the "make my day law"? What did you do for the people of Oklahoma for those 10 years, the same people you now come here to attack?

Present, present, present. Kinda easy to vote that way!!!!!

 

[338Shooter]

Must. Not. Troll.

 

[RidgeHunter]

It is an attitude that permeates out society. It is a serious part of the problem.

Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.

 

[Rajder]

A week to 10 days ago there was a thread on one of the OSA forums that I took serious issue with.
.........

JDA,

The attitude that you speak is the exact reason why I really no longer visit this board anymore. If you don't agree with the general consensus then you must be the enemy and you are stupid. If you don't want to run every muslim out of the country you must be a terrorist. If you don't believe that we should be giving guns to convicts as they leave the prison and young children to carry openly all the time then you must be a socialist commie dumb a$$.

I totally agree with your idea that the uncompromising attitude hurts our advancement of guns rights. People have to understand that there are two sides to every argument and when our side simply calls the other side stupid and refuses to even discuss the issue just means that side says: "Well OK, screw you then you get nothing. We were going to give some of your rights back but not anymore."

I think a lot of the people on this forum think there are a ton of people in the world just like them when they don't realize that many of them are the far right minority. They come on forums like these and voice their opinions and say "see lots of people agree with me" when in reality it really is just a small minority.

Whats sad is there are a lot of members here that I really learned a lot from but I just got tired of the attitude from the remaining 90% of people who think they are always right. I got tired of the personal attacks just because you may disagree.

Please note that this is not a statement that I agree with anyone specific or a statement with anything to do with politicians, open carry, etc. It's just my observation that the attitude of "I'm always right and everyone else is stupid" gets pretty old and is what caused me to stop contributing any more.

 

[jrusling]

It's not the "blood in the streets" argument for me. I just happen to believe that it is better to carry concealed and that the CCW law doesn't go far enough in terms of training requirements for those who want to carry. And again, I will freely admit that my own personal experience brought me to that opinion. I STILL have nightmares about the SDA classes I helped run. No kidding.

That said ... I do very much understand and sympathize with those of you who believe that the fact that there is even a law regulating carry AT ALL is not right. There was a time when I agreed completely with you. Then I worked at a gun range ... good golly ...

I will be the first to admit there is no easy answer to all this mess. In a perfect world I would LOVE to be able to buy what I want, when I want, and carry it however I want and just leave each to their own. Unfortunately there are too many idiots and power mongers out there and the rest of us are caught in the crossfire between the two.

I would probably not open carry except when on my own property. Right now if I go into my back yard without covering my weapon, I am breaking the law. The same if something happens and my weapon is exposed. I really doubt if most of the police would do more than give me a warning, but I would be breaking the law. That needs to be changed.

 

[BadgeBunny]

JDA,

The attitude that you speak is the exact reason why I really no longer visit this board anymore. If you don't agree with the general consensus then you must be the enemy and you are stupid. If you don't want to run every muslim out of the country you must be a terrorist. If you don't believe that we should be giving guns to convicts as they leave the prison and young children to carry openly all the time then you must be a socialist commie dumb a$$.

I totally agree with your idea that the uncompromising attitude hurts our advancement of guns rights. People have to understand that there are two sides to every argument and when our side simply calls the other side stupid and refuses to even discuss the issue just means that side says: "Well OK, screw you then you get nothing. We were going to give some of your rights back but not anymore."

I think a lot of the people on this forum think there are a ton of people in the world just like them when they don't realize that many of them are the far right minority. They come on forums like these and voice their opinions and say "see lots of people agree with me" when in reality it really is just a small minority.

Whats sad is there are a lot of members here that I really learned a lot from but I just got tired of the attitude from the remaining 90% of people who think they are always right. I got tired of the personal attacks just because you may disagree.

Please note that this is not a statement that I agree with anyone specific or a statement with anything to do with politicians, open carry, etc. It's just my observation that the attitude of "I'm always right and everyone else is stupid" gets pretty old and is what caused me to stop contributing any more.

This attitude amazes me ... There is absolutely no reason on the planet for anyone here to get their panties wadded up in a bunch just because their opinion is not the majority here. If the people on this board were that unreasonable I would never had made it to 20K posts ... Christ ... the first I heard of OKShooters I was being lambasted in a thread as a racist.

You guys need to take a long hard look in the mirror and figure out what you stand for. Then, right or wrong, take that stand and move on. If you are wrong, man up, admit it and take your beatdown. If you are right then stand your ground confident that the rest of the world is totally off its rocker. Sheesh ... Friggin' sissies ... My GAWD ...

 

[HMFIC]

JDA,

Are you simply trying to say that in order to move the yardsticks, we should set our goal at only gaining one yard?

I'm sure it's realistic in the legislature to try and make compromises in order to make gains, but clearly if you don't begin from a position worthy of throwing the ball in the first place, then you'll lose possession every time.

I'm just simply shocked that you would even attempt to ask those who have strong convictions in the freedoms they believe the 2nd amendment provides them to negotiate towards the middle in order to appease those who have the 100% opposite view. I'd like to see your effort in convicing go towards those who are undecided or don't seem to care. What would you tell them?

Wasn't our country founded on strong convictions and those who were willing to fight and die to stand up for them? I don't remember George Washington taking a deal for land and title and selling us all down the river such as you might propose.

Just in case you haven't done your homework... we're right up there with New York & Illinois for being non-permisive in open carry. EVEN CALIFORNIA has a rural open carry law!

 

[orangevale]

A week to 10 days ago there was a thread on one of the OSA forums that I took serious issue with. It was a thread where posters were bashing the State Legislature and politicians in general. The post that set me off was one that simply stated the opinion that every member of the legislature was a crook, liar, cheat and on and on. Everyone else on the thread simply piled on.

I am a former member of the State Legislature. I took exception to this statement suggesting that members of the State Legislature were no more crooks cheat and liars than is normal in any profession. I tried to point out that most members are honest, law abiding citizens that are simply serving their constituents and the State of Oklahoma.

The posts that followed were simply more of the "hate" directed at the members of the State Legislature. I have thought about this issue for the last 10 days or so and finally decided to make this post.

Like most all of you, I have a CCL and enjoy all the benefits of guns from hunting, target practice and self and family protection. I grew up on a farm, ranch and was taught guns, gun safety, hunting etc at a very young age.

I am very pro guns. While I would most likely never "open carry" I support open carry for those who would. I would feel much better practicing conceal carry without the worry, concern of accidentally showing. I am a member of the NRA and my local home fishing, gun and hunting club. I have been a member of a sportsman type club since I was 9 years old.

When I was in the State Legislature we passed the bill labeled the "Make My Day." Wayne Cozort of Tulsa, was the House author and I was a co-author of that bill as well were many of my legislative friends.

So, I am not the enemy. Neither were the majority of the members that I served with for some 10 years. And, the majority of the current members of the Oklahoma State Legislature are not enemies either.

The reason I am posting this thread here and now, is that I think the attitude displayed in this thread is a serious negative issue in promoting the kind of progressive gun laws we would like to see. It is an attitude that permeates out society. It is a serious part of the problem.

Gun issues are much like the issue of abortion. Gun law and abortion law are the kind of issues that one is either for or against. There is no room for disagreement ... in the minds of most. With abortion, there are those who simply will never accept anything except a total 100% ban on abortion. With gun law there are those who simply won't accept anything, except zero restrictions on gun use and ownership.

Therein, lies the problem.

I have personally witnessed it on many threads on this site. If you have a differing opinion on any part of or interpretation of the 2nd Amendment than you are the enemy. If you believe a requirement for training as part of the CCL is a good thing, then you are the enemy. If you believe that a background check before getting a CCL is a good thing then you are the enemy. If you don't take the hard line view on the 2nd Amendment, than you are the enemy

Over the last six months I have been told I am the enemy because of the above.

The reason I am doing this long thread is in the interest of furthering the efforts to improve gun law in Oklahoma for all of us. Over the last few months I have made calls on behalf of the effort to have "open carry" in Oklahoma.

I have suggested to the members that I personally know that they take the time to read the forums on this board. I have asked them to simply ignore the negative attitudes that so many here have regarding members of the State Legislature.

I have encouraged them to make contact with the leadership of this site. My thought is that there is great benefit from promoting a more positive attitude towards the State Legislature and it's members in general. Having them read all the negative stuff one can find here is not conducive to promoting the kind of gun law we all want.

I know for a fact, that those with this kind of attitude on issues like guns and abortion are their own worst enemy. They so poison the political process that they make it difficult for their legislative friends to help them.

I would simply hope that people would recognize that making the kinds of changes in gun law that we all want is not an easy process. If you take the hard line, tough guy attitude that it is "all or nothing" then what you will get is "nothing." You will just alienate those who are on your side and poison the process for all of us.

I know there are those members of OSA who are working behind the scenes to promote good progressive gun law. They work hard in this very frustrating process. I know they must get tired of fighting the good battle and then watching some of you do your best to "poison" the process.

I know how they must feel as I have been there, done that.

I may be slow, but it seems to me we skipped a step here! Before you can diagnose the problem and prescribe the cure you need to show that there is a problem.

Based on Gallup’s latest “Honesty/Ethics in Professions” poll; the general public doesn’t think much of their political class (Lobbyists, Members of Congress, and State Officeholders). What evidence is there that the membership of these forums has a substantially worse opinion of the State Legislature than the general public has of the political class? For all we know the forum members’ attitudes are “normal”, and thus not a problem particular to the forum.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1654/Honesty-Ethics-Professions.aspx