Poll: Marijuana Law Reform

[vvvvvvv]

3) If I remember correctly, (possible I am wrong because I am going by memory on something I read a couple years ago) most arrested and sent to prison the last few decades are dealers or large growers. (over 4 plants, the recognized personal number in most states)

Until you can provide sources, what you say has about the same value as a used sheet of this:

As for why the government fights it, they spend far more then they make from it.

Not counting asset forfeiture.

Current asset forfeiture laws only require the accusation of a drug crime in most states. No criminal conviction is required, and even if a criminal trial returns a not guilty verdict the burden of proof that the property was in no way related to drugs is on the defendant.

In federal cases, OHP received nearly $8M in funding through civil asset forfeiture equitable sharing with Uncle Sam between FY2010 and FY2012 (up to 80% of seizure value, depending on what agencies - state, federal, and local - were involved). They also illegally spent ~$1.8M of that money.

OHP's budget for law enforcement activities during that time period was ~$300M.

That does not include cases that do not involve Uncle Sam, and those go 100% to the agency bringing the case. To give you an idea, in that 21-mile stretch of I-40 that goes through Caddo County where you always see interdiction teams, overall $1M was seized by a private contractor through July. That does not include the amount seized without the private contractor. For what it's worth, I hear from several of my lawyer friends that deal in either asset forfeiture or criminal defense that Beckham County has an even higher rate of forfeiture and arrests based on questionable stops (but it's not "newsworthy" because it doesn't involve cronyism). I'd love to find a comprehensive data source of asset forfeitures by jurisdiction, but odds are that will never happen considering that many of the municipal cases take place outside of courts of record.

By the way, in some states, a "secret compartment" means you're trafficking drugs, even if there are no drugs to be found, regardless of whether or not it is a factory feature.

I know some police departments that would likely have to shut down if it weren't for asset forfeiture, federal and state drug war funding, and federal terrorism funding. No one wants to be the recipient of the political poo flinging for costing cops their jobs.

 

[saltydecimator]

Moobs. That is all

 

[RickN]

Hope they legalize hemp production in these states again... Well, pull the stamp requirement off of it anyway. It's ridiculous that we have to import such a fantastic natural substance.

Funny thing is that back when it was no problem to grow it, we still did not grow much of it in the US. In fact the government had to subsidize it during WW2 because as badly as it was needed for the war effort, no one wanted to grow it.

 

[RickN]

Until you can provide sources, what you say has about the same value as a used sheet of this:





Not counting asset forfeiture.

Current asset forfeiture laws only require the accusation of a drug crime in most states. No criminal conviction is required, and even if a criminal trial returns a not guilty verdict the burden of proof that the property was in no way related to drugs is on the defendant.

In federal cases, OHP received nearly $8M in funding through civil asset forfeiture equitable sharing with Uncle Sam between FY2010 and FY2012 (up to 80% of seizure value, depending on what agencies - state, federal, and local - were involved). They also illegally spent ~$1.8M of that money.

OHP's budget for law enforcement activities during that time period was ~$300M.

That does not include cases that do not involve Uncle Sam, and those go 100% to the agency bringing the case. To give you an idea, in that 21-mile stretch of I-40 that goes through Caddo County where you always see interdiction teams, overall $1M was seized by a private contractor through July. That does not include the amount seized without the private contractor. For what it's worth, I hear from several of my lawyer friends that deal in either asset forfeiture or criminal defense that Beckham County has an even higher rate of forfeiture and arrests based on questionable stops (but it's not "newsworthy" because it doesn't involve cronyism). I'd love to find a comprehensive data source of asset forfeitures by jurisdiction, but odds are that will never happen considering that many of the municipal cases take place outside of courts of record.

By the way, in some states, a "secret compartment" means you're trafficking drugs, even if there are no drugs to be found, regardless of whether or not it is a factory feature.

I know some police departments that would likely have to shut down if it weren't for asset forfeiture, federal and state drug war funding, and federal terrorism funding. No one wants to be the recipient of the political poo flinging for costing cops their jobs.

Doing some things tonight but found this for you real quick.

(Federal Drug Prisoners by Offense, 2004) According to the Justice Department, 5.3% of drug offenders in federal prisons are serving time for possession; 91.4% are serving time for trafficking offenses; and 3.3% are in for "other."
Source:
Mumola, Christopher J., and Karberg, Jennifer C., "Drug Use and Dependence, State and Federal Prisoners, 2004," (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Oct. 2006) (NCJ213530), p. 4.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/dudsfp04.pdf
- See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs#sthash.cIPRYg8C.dpuf

I am assuming users will be higher in state prison but not that much. Maybe double.

Almost forgot, a few months back some government commission was talking about helping overcrowding by cutting sentences for smaller, first time drug dealers including those dealing meth.

 

[caojyn]

“And I’ll prove to YOU,” yelled the South-Going Zax, “That I can stand here in the prairie of Prax
For fifty-nine years! For I live by a rule
That I learned as a boy back in South-Going School. Never budge! That’s my rule. Never budge in the least! Not an inch to the west! Not an inch to the east!
I’ll stay here, not budging! I can and I will
If it makes you and me and the whole world stand still!”

 

[vvvvvvv]

Doing some things tonight but found this for you real quick.

(Federal Drug Prisoners by Offense, 2004) According to the Justice Department, 5.3% of drug offenders in federal prisons are serving time for possession; 91.4% are serving time for trafficking offenses; and 3.3% are in for "other."
Source:
Mumola, Christopher J., and Karberg, Jennifer C., "Drug Use and Dependence, State and Federal Prisoners, 2004," (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Oct. 2006) (NCJ213530), p. 4.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/dudsfp04.pdf
- See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs#sthash.cIPRYg8C.dpuf

I am assuming users will be higher in state prison but not that much. Maybe double.

Almost forgot, a few months back some government commission was talking about helping overcrowding by cutting sentences for smaller, first time drug dealers including those dealing meth.

It's unlikely in Oklahoma that you'll only be charged with simple possession (M first, F second). If you have cash, ziploc-type bags, or a food scale at the location where the drugs are found, there's a good chance it will be charged as possession w/ intent to distribute (F). If you're within city limits of most rural towns, it's likely that you'll get charged with possession within 2000 feet of a school, licensed daycare (doesn't matter if it's home-based or not), or playground (F). If you have cash in one of those locations, it's possession w/ intent to distribute AND possession within a protected zone (F+F). The goal here is that you plead down to a lesser offense and avoid court. Prosecutors hate going to court, but when they do they like funneling you to drug court since it creates an ongoing revenue stream beyond your fine.

Around 1 in 200 of are in prison (1% of the population is in the correctional system), and around 83% of inmates are in there for non-violent offenses (though that source conflicts with this number of 52%). Part of the reason for the high prison population is the privatization of the correctional system (~23% of Oklahoma inmates are in private facilities). Not only is it bad for business to house violent offenders (higher risk), but most private prison contracts carry guarantees that a certain minimum capacity will always be met.

Drug possession and/or distribution (which is different from trafficking under Oklahoma law) accounts for more than 25% of Oklahoma inmates.

 

[RickN]

OK how many of that 25% are for possession pot only?

 

[jfssms]

OK how many of that 25% are for possession pot only?

If the number is <0 it's to many. I own a digital scale and usually have a couple bucks an gun laying around. This kinda stuff, seizure and charge enhancement should cause anyone concern.

 

[vvvvvvv]

OK how many of that 25% are for possession pot only?

They don't say.

If the number is <0 it's to many. I own a digital scale and usually have a couple bucks an gun laying around. This kinda stuff, seizure and charge enhancement should cause anyone concern.

Yep. If your weed is in a room with a lock on the door or a solid-core door, or you have something besides a standard door knob and deadbolt on an exterior door (such as a chain, wedge, or other security device), then you are fortifying a place where a crime is taking place (F).

Seriously, it's easy to get charged with 5 or more felonies just by having a pipe or other smoking device with residue and trace amounts of any part of a marijuana plant within your home.

That's also why you never let a police officer in your home (except in very limited exceptions, such as they are a *very* close friend). Oregano in a baggie next to a food scale in the kitchen will plausibly look like weed from the front door area, and that's enough to detain you and search your home on suspicion of being a dealer or possible trafficker. Gets even more fun when they bring the Clever Hans unit since an 85.5% false positive rate is considered "infallible" by the courts.

 

[_CY_]

you need to stop spinning and start talking straight. Legalizing pot is NOT going to save money, lives, or anything else. It is only going to help a tiny percentage of pot users with some medical conditions. For 99.9%, it is only going to let you get high legally.

looks who's spinning in the face of overwhelming legitimate evidence posted by not one, but several OSA regulars. who are known for being responsible/productive citizens.

again .. you must be delusional if you actually believe legalizing pot will NOT save money, lives or anything else. especially if 25+% of incarcerated folks in state of Oklahoma prisons for possession of drugs is correct.

pretty safe to say incarcerating non-violent formerly productive folks for pot destroys lives and costs the state $$$$ millions to house in private prisons.

last I heard it's legal to get high from: Alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine are the most widely consumed psychotropic drugs worldwide. They are largely consumed by normal individuals, but their use is ... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181622/

coming from an admitted former pot user like yourself... the pot calling the kettle black comes to mind