Rancher in Nevada being harassed by the FEDS and confiscating his cattle

[Hobbes]

This is my last post in this thread.

I found this piece that explains some of the history and legalese of Nevada law and Why Bundy's claim is false.
You might find it interesting.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-cliven-bundys-unconstitutional-stand/360587/

 

[Glocktogo]

Listen up people

This is my formal apology to Glocktogo

He posted some language that was somewhat ambiguous last night and I took it one way and he explained it another way.

I searched the forum and found this post from 13 months ago
https://www.okshooters.com/showthre...rmored-Tanks&p=2125208&viewfull=1#post2125208

In that post he expresses basically the same idea that he explained last night, in very similar words.

So I was wrong and he was right.

Well I feel a bit sheepish now. I must admit that I'm frequently annoying and contrary around here, so even I understand how Hobbes might've taken what I posted a different way than I meant it.

This is my last post in this thread.

I found this piece that explains some of the history and legalese of Nevada law and Why Bundy's claim is false.
You might find it interesting.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-cliven-bundys-unconstitutional-stand/360587/

This just reinforces what I posted about the how and why of the Nevada territory voluntarily relinquishing all claims and rights to the land in question.

http://lands.nv.gov/forms/chapter1.pdf

Bundy's own state disagrees with him. It belongs to the federal government, period. Nothing at all in evidence will refute that. Even if we could all agree that everyone wants Bundy gone so they can re-purpose the land and water, his claim will never hold up in court. It hasn't for over 20 years because he's wrong. Are they trying to get rid of him as cheaply as possible? Yes. Is it right? No. Is it legal? Absolutely. Will it eventually happen? Most likely.

I recognize that he has an emotional attachment to the area and stubbornly refuses to accept that his own state doesn't want him there anymore. But Nevada is running out of water, fast. They also can't generate hydro power with no water. The only thing they have in abundance is sun and wind. They need the water he has a lease on and they need the land for energy production.

The best thing he could do is use this event to renegotiate a better deal than the crappy one they offered him in the first place, then look for another place to ranch out of. As it has been for the past 20 years, this has nothing to do with a tortoise. The only one's who will be more disappointed than Bundy when this all comes to a close are the environmentalists. If they think Bundy's cattle are bad, they ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

[cdoan02]

First off, I abhor physical violence. I wish to avoid it at all costs. I do not wish anyone to be hurt. I don't go out and fight the federal government. I don't hate cops. I don't hate law and order. I know that there are countless examples of people that are actually 100% in the right, yet are screwed by the government. I realize that Cliven Bundy hasn't done everything right. But here I am supporting Cliven Bundy. Why? Because he stood up.

It's been shown to me that in a court of law, Mr. Bundy is in the wrong. He is refusing to obey a legal court order. And yet I support him.

Reading this article, and the specific quote from Harry Reid, made me want to explain why:

http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/...V14I5GhESg.cspx


"Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said.



Exactly!!!!

Unless that American people happens to be a member of the elite ruling class.

I'd be happy to endlessly link examples of an elite class of citizen, and their agents, that are openly allowed to violate law and walk away from it... But to avoid the inevitable attacks which result from many of the examples, let's go with one we can all agree on.

Eric Holder, our Attorney General. The head of the Department of Justice. Laws he broke resulted in American lives lost. He has also been ordered to produce specific documents relating to such charges to our elected Representatives, and has refused to comply. Yet he hasn't ordered the ATF to mobilize tactical units to surround him and forcibly take what was ordered to be turned over. Because he isn't going to attack himself.

No other executive branch agencies have mobilized tactical units to surround Mr. Holder and forcibly take what was ordered. Because they are all part of an elite ruling class.

They make the rules. They break the rules. They change the rules to manipulate outcomes that are beneficial to them. They change the rules to manipulate a lower class of citizen to benefit themselves.

I do not care if Clive Bundy is shown in a court of law to be wrong. I do not care about why the BLM wants him off. I do not care about Chinese solar farms, or tortoise conspiracies.

I care that the law is manipulated by those that benefit from the manipulation. If he was part of the elite ruling class, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

I haven't heard about any complaints of Mr. Bundy from anyone other than the elite ruling class or those sticking up for the ruling class' rights. To my fellow citizens that deem me crazy, and tell me that it's federal land, and they get to decide what to do with it...

Who is THEY? The federal government? Sweet! That's We the People, so I should have a say in it. It may not be anything other than my opinion, but it's valid in my mind.

We are supposed to all citizens with equal rights. Unless you are military, you are a civilian. Even though that's not the case, as I appear to be a plebeian... But I digress.

This regular guy, Cliven Bundy, wants to let some cattle free range out on some crappy desert land? Oh, he uses the money he makes to build and maintain roads, water lines, and water tanks so that his animals can survive out there? And the argument against letting him do this is that the government owns this land, and has the right to do whatever it wants?

The government is not a private land owner. The government is We the People. And I do not believe that the people making the ownership decisions over the land uses have our best interests in mind. I believe they have the best interests of the elite ruling class in mind.

Why would I trust ANY agency with APPOINTED decision makers that have the power to do whatever they want, however they want, with the force of law, including theft, imprisonment, physical violence, and/or death, with absolutely no oversight or requirement to answer to congress, the elected representatives of We the People?

Cliven Bundy and his supporters stood up and non-violently refused to comply. That is called protest. That is the first amendment in action. When they were physically attacked, more supporters came. They remained non-violent, but clearly stated they would defend themselves if attacked.

You can call me names, but I see an elite ruling class. I am not a part of them. I don't want to be a part of them. I just want to live my life peacefully. I love my neighbors. If any of them had issue with something I did, I would work to correct it. If my neighbors need help, I want to be there for them. Seems to me Mr. Bundy appears no different than me. He's a cattle rancher. I'm a city guy. But we are the same.

If a team of armed federal agents mobilized against me for reasons they deemed legal and reasonable, I cannot imagine my family, friends, and neighbors would all mobilize and put themselves at risk for me. I trust they all know I strive to be righteous, and would believe that I didn't do wrong. But to put themselves on the line? They have families to think of. And I understand that.

Go look at those pictures. Those are normal folk. Just like me. They have family, friends, and neighbors. Cliven Bundy's family, friends, and neighbors put themselves on the line for him. In my mind, they must believe him to be a good, righteous man. Those were not paid mercenaries. The ones putting themselves at risk for pay were on the other side.

I believe all individuals are the same. We are created as equals, and deserve equal rights. We are all supposed to be equal American citizens. But that's not what I see.

I see an elite ruling class, the agents of the ruling class, and the plebeians. I see myself as a plebeian. Just regular people.

I believe the federal government, through the BLM, has manipulated the situation to take control of the land from We the People to the elite ruling class so that they may benefit.

Just like they do in every single federal agency that has the power to do whatever they want, however they want, with the force of law.

I side with Mr. Bundy. I am completely 100% aware that he is in absolute violation of court orders, and that he is breaking the law by doing so. The law is not just.



Or maybe I'm just crazy, and the IRS, NSA, BATFE, BLM, etc. are all truly representative of We the People.

 

[Glocktogo]

First off, I abhor physical violence. I wish to avoid it at all costs. I do not wish anyone to be hurt. I don't go out and fight the federal government. I don't hate cops. I don't hate law and order. I know that there are countless examples of people that are actually 100% in the right, yet are screwed by the government. I realize that Cliven Bundy hasn't done everything right. But here I am supporting Cliven Bundy. Why? Because he stood up.

It's been shown to me that in a court of law, Mr. Bundy is in the wrong. He is refusing to obey a legal court order. And yet I support him.

Reading this article, and the specific quote from Harry Reid, made me want to explain why:

http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/...V14I5GhESg.cspx


"Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said.



Exactly!!!!

Unless that American people happens to be a member of the elite ruling class.

I'd be happy to endlessly link examples of an elite class of citizen, and their agents, that are openly allowed to violate law and walk away from it... But to avoid the inevitable attacks which result from many of the examples, let's go with one we can all agree on.

Eric Holder, our Attorney General. The head of the Department of Justice. Laws he broke resulted in American lives lost. He has also been ordered to produce specific documents relating to such charges to our elected Representatives, and has refused to comply. Yet he hasn't ordered the ATF to mobilize tactical units to surround him and forcibly take what was ordered to be turned over. Because he isn't going to attack himself.

No other executive branch agencies have mobilized tactical units to surround Mr. Holder and forcibly take what was ordered. Because they are all part of an elite ruling class.

They make the rules. They break the rules. They change the rules to manipulate outcomes that are beneficial to them. They change the rules to manipulate a lower class of citizen to benefit themselves.

I do not care if Clive Bundy is shown in a court of law to be wrong. I do not care about why the BLM wants him off. I do not care about Chinese solar farms, or tortoise conspiracies.

I care that the law is manipulated by those that benefit from the manipulation. If he was part of the elite ruling class, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

I haven't heard about any complaints of Mr. Bundy from anyone other than the elite ruling class or those sticking up for the ruling class' rights. To my fellow citizens that deem me crazy, and tell me that it's federal land, and they get to decide what to do with it...

Who is THEY? The federal government? Sweet! That's We the People, so I should have a say in it. It may not be anything other than my opinion, but it's valid in my mind.

We are supposed to all citizens with equal rights. Unless you are military, you are a civilian. Even though that's not the case, as I appear to be a plebeian... But I digress.

This regular guy, Cliven Bundy, wants to let some cattle free range out on some crappy desert land? Oh, he uses the money he makes to build and maintain roads, water lines, and water tanks so that his animals can survive out there? And the argument against letting him do this is that the government owns this land, and has the right to do whatever it wants?

The government is not a private land owner. The government is We the People. And I do not believe that the people making the ownership decisions over the land uses have our best interests in mind. I believe they have the best interests of the elite ruling class in mind.

Why would I trust ANY agency with APPOINTED decision makers that have the power to do whatever they want, however they want, with the force of law, including theft, imprisonment, physical violence, and/or death, with absolutely no oversight or requirement to answer to congress, the elected representatives of We the People?

Cliven Bundy and his supporters stood up and non-violently refused to comply. That is called protest. That is the first amendment in action. When they were physically attacked, more supporters came. They remained non-violent, but clearly stated they would defend themselves if attacked.

You can call me names, but I see an elite ruling class. I am not a part of them. I don't want to be a part of them. I just want to live my life peacefully. I love my neighbors. If any of them had issue with something I did, I would work to correct it. If my neighbors need help, I want to be there for them. Seems to me Mr. Bundy appears no different than me. He's a cattle rancher. I'm a city guy. But we are the same.

If a team of armed federal agents mobilized against me for reasons they deemed legal and reasonable, I cannot imagine my family, friends, and neighbors would all mobilize and put themselves at risk for me. I trust they all know I strive to be righteous, and would believe that I didn't do wrong. But to put themselves on the line? They have families to think of. And I understand that.

Go look at those pictures. Those are normal folk. Just like me. They have family, friends, and neighbors. Cliven Bundy's family, friends, and neighbors put themselves on the line for him. In my mind, they must believe him to be a good, righteous man. Those were not paid mercenaries. The ones putting themselves at risk for pay were on the other side.

I believe all individuals are the same. We are created as equals, and deserve equal rights. We are all supposed to be equal American citizens. But that's not what I see.

I see an elite ruling class, the agents of the ruling class, and the plebeians. I see myself as a plebeian. Just regular people.

I believe the federal government, through the BLM, has manipulated the situation to take control of the land from We the People to the elite ruling class so that they may benefit.

Just like they do in every single federal agency that has the power to do whatever they want, however they want, with the force of law.

I side with Mr. Bundy. I am completely 100% aware that he is in absolute violation of court orders, and that he is breaking the law by doing so. The law is not just.

Or maybe I'm just crazy, and the IRS, NSA, BATFE, BLM, etc. are all truly representative of We the People.

I'd agree with you completely if this were Bundy's land. I'd agree with you completely if the land belonged to the State of Nevada. Unfortunately, Nevada and the feds agree that the land is the domain of the feds. Personally I think Las Vegas metro, Clark County and to a much lesser degree, Nevada want Bundy gone more than the feds do. They will benefit from his absence more than the BLM will. They get the water and the energy, while the BLM will get the fees, which are paltry in comparison to the value of the water and energy.

I think if these Nevada/Clark Co./Las Vegas power brokers want to oust Bundy so badly, they shouldn't hide behind the BLM to do it.

 

[yukonjack]

I think the federal government should worry more about the fence climbers then the grass eaters.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

2 more words with Dingy Harry connections:

Rare earth

( no not the 60's rock band)

Follow the money.....

 

[CHenry]

2 more words with Dingy Harry connections:

Rare earth

( no not the 60's rock band)

Follow the money.....

Got a link?

Sent from outer space or somewhere from my mobile device

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Got a link?

Sent from outer space or somewhere from my mobile device

If its there... 780 KOH am Reno.... Dan Mason show.....seems the ground down there is full of rare earth elements and several deals have been cut with China. Part of the land management angle used to be strategic reserves....go figure

Dr Micheal Savage did a bunch of todays show on this Nevada situation. He noted the fact Fox has stayed away from this story along with everyone else.


We dig a little gold too. 85% of production has been sold to China. About 15% of silver has gone to India.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Got a link?

Sent from outer space or somewhere from my mobile device

If its there... 780 KOH am Reno.... Dan Mason show.....seems the ground down there is full of rare earth elements and several deals have been cut with China. Part of the land management angle used to be strategic reserves....go figure

Dr Micheal Savage did a bunch of todays show on this Nevada situation. He noted the fact Fox has stayed away from this story along with everyone else.


We dig a little gold too. 85% of production has been sold to China. About 15% of silver has gone to India.

 

[ignerntbend]

Just google Harry Reid Rare Earth. There's tons of stuff out there, even from places like Huffpo. Plenty of stuff to support what Jef is saying. This has been a neutral post on my part. I'm staying out of this,so far.

Edit again: the most charitable thing I can say about Bundy is that the gettable get got. He sort of made himself the low hanging fruit in this mess. I know the feeling.