? Regarding use of surefire-type light

[septic_shock]

In another post, a poster recounted an encounter in which a surefire type light was used in a potential defensive situation. I have a question regarding their use, but did not want to take the thread off topic.

Many of us carry flashlights as part of our EDC system for self defense. In certain situations they can be extremely useful. My question is this...

Let's say I'm pumping gas late at night, and an unruly individual starts making his way toward me to the point that it sets off all my alarms and looks confrontational. I pull out my surefire, light him up and then he produces a weapon, resulting in me pulling mine and ending the situation.

Would a reasonable jury/prosecutor see the act of "lighting him up" as an escalation of the situation? Much the same way as flipping the guy off or making comments about his mother?

I realize that you never know what amDA or jury might do. But what do you guys think?

-thanks

 

[repete34]

The escalation of the situation happened when he came you way. Ask yourself if he had the ability, opportunity and intent..

 

[jbarnett]

If I was on the jury I would look at it as part of the right to defend yourself.
It isn't lethal and you attempted to deter him without force. The BG escalated it by pulling a weapon.

 

[Rod Snell]

The problem with all the "what if" scenario discussions is the muances of a situation that can make all the difference. No matter what you "suppose" the situation will be, it will have some differences than you expect, and "no plan survives contact with the enemy."

If you were "in imminent danger" the use of a light will be irrelevant, but if there was no danger until you "intimidated" the person with the light.....
And which it is will be whatever the legal system decides on that day. The light itself is neither good or bad, necessarily.

Fortunately, most people who have the basic legal principles firmly in mind only act to defend themselves in ways that other people (police, prosecutors, juries) find reasonable.

 

[NikatKimber]

The problem with all the "what if" scenario discussions is the muances of a situation that can make all the difference. No matter what you "suppose" the situation will be, it will have some differences than you expect, and "no plan survives contact with the enemy."

If you were "in imminent danger" the use of a light will be irrelevant, but if there was no danger until you "intimidated" the person with the light.....
And which it is will be whatever the legal system decides on that day. The light itself is neither good or bad, necessarily.

Fortunately, most people who have the basic legal principles firmly in mind only act to defend themselves in ways that other people (police, prosecutors, juries) find reasonable.

+1 to what Rod said.

Let's say I'm pumping gas late at night, and an unruly individual starts making his way toward me to the point that it sets off all my alarms and looks confrontational. I pull out my surefire, light him up and then he produces a weapon, resulting in me pulling mine and ending the situation.

From your explanation, I would say probably best not to "light him up" yet. But again, this is a hypothetical. Personally, unless someone was addressing me in some manner such that I knew it was me they were approaching (not just returning to a vehicle that is behind mine), AND approaching me, I wouldn't act on my alarms. My

 

[joshuasmaximus]

Would a reasonable jury/prosecutor see the act of "lighting him up" as an escalation of the situation? Much the same way as flipping the guy off or making comments about his mother?

I can't imagine that shining a flashlight would be seen as anything other than a defensive action. Let's flip this situation around. Would you be justified in drawing your gun (threat of deadly force) if HE shined a light on YOU? I doubt it. So, since his drawing of a weapon is an offensive use of deadly force then you would be justified in defending yourself in kind.

 

[Glocktogo]

Ask yourself this. In a low light setting where an individual approaches a police officer in what appears to be a disturbed state, would they shine a light on them? Would they use a command voice to get the individual's attention and further clarify their intent?

Google "Managing Unknown Contacts". You'll notice that auto complete will finish your search term before you finish typing it. Review the information you find, then you have an established legal basis for your actions in the event you need to use them. Information you know before an incident is legally relevant. Information you discover after the fact may not be.

Hope this helps!

 

[prdator]

Ask yourself this. In a low light setting where an individual approaches a police officer in what appears to be a disturbed state, would they shine a light on them? Would they use a command voice to get the individual's attention and further clarify their intent?

Google "Managing Unknown Contacts". You'll notice that auto complete will finish your search term before you finish typing it. Review the information you find, then you have an established legal basis for your actions in the event you need to use them. Information you know before an incident is legally relevant. Information you discover after the fact may not be.

Hope this helps!

Oh yea SN is the man... ( side note Ill have him at the OKC gun club Feb 19-20 for ECQC)

MUC, is the Most important thing you can learn in your SD training.
After you have read the article let us know your thoughts on the scenario you presented.

 

[septic_shock]

Thanks for the responses guys. It's so hard not to stay up at night playing out scenarios in my head. Especially knowing that you can never have your bases covered.

The flip around situation as stated above really hit it home for me. I could also see the pulling of said flashlight as a good thing in the eyes of a jury. As in that I wanted to better accertain if the individual had the means and intent of causing me great bodily harm or death.

Once again, thank you.

 

[crazy8]

What I think I'm hearing here is just leave your flashlight in your pocket and be "a good little victim"and take one to the hip.