Signs and people with signs impeach obama this morning

[GolfWhiskey]

I didn't mean to insinuate that Ham (or anyone else) is beyond reproach or that their actions should always get a free pass - what I meant was, in the rush to hurl doo doo at the President over Benghazi, many people don't realize they are attacking more than simply Obama. Ham is a 4 Star General, and though capable of mistakes as any other human is, also has a lot more access to information that we don't have and the mind of a military expert (I might even say genius) with which to process that information.

Basically having random people on the internet attack his military decisions is like having a hobo question an accomplished engineer's opinion on the structural integrity of a given building.

And thanks for the warm welcome

 

[BadgeBunny]

I didn't mean to insinuate that Ham (or anyone else) is beyond reproach or that their actions should always get a free pass - what I meant was, in the rush to hurl doo doo at the President over Benghazi, many people don't realize they are attacking more than simply Obama. Ham is a 4 Star General, and though capable of mistakes as any other human is, also has a lot more access to information that we don't have and the mind of a military expert (I might even say genius) with which to process that information.

Basically having random people on the internet attack his military decisions is like having a hobo question an accomplished engineer's opinion on the structural integrity of a given building.

And thanks for the warm welcome

OK ... I hate to point out the obvious but THAT is what the internet is for! And besides, folks who post opinions (myself included) on subjects like this are simply working with the best information available to them at the time. My mind about Benghazi might be different if I'd been privy to everything TPTB were privy to ... But we will never know, so ... I tend to think they really screwed the pooch on this one ...

 

[rebel-son]

buncha hippies

You probably have a problem with the guys with the signs right?

 

[caojyn]

You probably have a problem with the guys with the signs right?

No, just like to stir the pot

 

[rebel-son]

Since people ask for reasons I think the executive action Obama did RIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION WHEN DOWN IN THE POLLS is a good start.

He took an oath of office to defend against "all enemies both foreign and domestic". His IRS can target tea parties yet does not think "people" having 10 kids a majority on the public dime is a foreign enemy I don't know. THis is not even including the ones pissing on American flags and "demanding rights"

I think it also borders on offering aid and comfort to the enemy. We are under an unarmed invasion.

 

[uncle money bags]

Hello. This is going to be a long post, so bear with me. First off I want to say that I am a huge critic of a lot of what President Obama has done. His record on domestic surveillance and the 4th Amendment in general is abysmal, and I think perhaps even more than Obamacare will be his legacy. In other words, I believe there are a number of extremely valid criticisms that can be (and should be) leveled against the President.

That being said, the whole Benghazi thing is just mind blowing. I don't know if you know who General Carter Ham is, but if you don't you should look him up. I had the distinct honor of serving under General Ham in Mosul Iraq and can verify from personal experience that he is one of the most competent, capable field commanders in the US Army. He ran his shop with an impeccable sense of concern for both the mission and the welfare of his soldiers (balancing these as a 1 star is a nearly impossible task) and as a result his AO was one of the most well-run of the entire war. General Ham was (and still is as far as I know) the commander of all forces in AFRICOM, and was the man in charge when the consulate attack happened. He had the authority to deploy any of the forces under his command to assist if he deemed it possible and/or necessary. The closest combat-ready force was located in Italy, some 8 hours away from Libya - this is assuming that an operational plan was in place and forces were ready to launch 1 minute after the attacks occurred. All sources state that the attacks took between 30 minutes and 1 hour.

Needless to say, any time someone accuses the President of purposefully or accidentally failing to act in Benghazi, they are also impugning both the honor and the competency of General Carter Ham - a man whose honor and competence are, as far as I'm concerned, above reproach. The ultimate responsibility rests with General Ham in this matter as he was literally the man with the immediate authority to intervene if he deemed it necessary. That he chose not to do so tells me all I need to know - that he realized by the time his QRF arrived, the attack would be over and sending fully armed soldiers into the middle of a hornets nest didn't work out so well in Mogadishu. Basically what I'm saying, in the most polite way I can, is that you have no idea what you are talking about and your desire to make the President look bad is also causing you to insult perhaps the greatest living American field officer. One should be careful before making such claims, especially if they are being made from a position of ignorance.

I appreciate your well spoken response to the quote by subprep. However, the key element to your argument rests on incorrect data. The closest military assets were not in italy, unless you were specifically referring to conventional US armed forces. This ignores the other personel; civilian and military, who were within 45 minutes travel time to Benghazi. In which case, you would be correct but your point is not valid.

General Ham is as you describe him in so far as I can tell from descriptions by persons who know more about him than I, including yourself. This does not explain why other assets were told to stand down by civilian leaders. The decision on the ground in that ao should have been the ranking US military officer at the scene. He wanted to go, and was told no. The responsibility for what happened after that moment rests in the hands of the ordering authority that denied the request, and that person was not General Ham.

Also, at the onset of the action, no body could have known how long it the fight would last. We now know, at least one survivor was on the roof at the annex; gravely injured, for almost 20 hours on his own. Since there was no way to know how long this action would be, how can we in hindsight say that not mustering the qrf in Italy was logical? When would have been the right time to draw weapons and load onto the bird? What is the par time for the qrf to be in the air? The answer to the last two questions are not dictated by hindsight

Blaming this administration for what happened in Benghazi, through their failure to act or their gross negligence is valid and is not an indictment of the Africom commander as he answers to that administration.

The best timeline i have seen thus far regarding this incident.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2013/05/damning-benghazi-timeline-spreadsheet.html.

 

[dennishoddy]

Yes..

 

[subprep]

Hello. This is going to be a long post, so bear with me. First off I want to say that I am a huge critic of a lot of what President Obama has done. His record on domestic surveillance and the 4th Amendment in general is abysmal, and I think perhaps even more than Obamacare will be his legacy. In other words, I believe there are a number of extremely valid criticisms that can be (and should be) leveled against the President.

That being said, the whole Benghazi thing is just mind blowing. I don't know if you know who General Carter Ham is, but if you don't you should look him up. I had the distinct honor of serving under General Ham in Mosul Iraq and can verify from personal experience that he is one of the most competent, capable field commanders in the US Army. He ran his shop with an impeccable sense of concern for both the mission and the welfare of his soldiers (balancing these as a 1 star is a nearly impossible task) and as a result his AO was one of the most well-run of the entire war. General Ham was (and still is as far as I know) the commander of all forces in AFRICOM, and was the man in charge when the consulate attack happened. He had the authority to deploy any of the forces under his command to assist if he deemed it possible and/or necessary. The closest combat-ready force was located in Italy, some 8 hours away from Libya - this is assuming that an operational plan was in place and forces were ready to launch 1 minute after the attacks occurred. All sources state that the attacks took between 30 minutes and 1 hour.

Needless to say, any time someone accuses the President of purposefully or accidentally failing to act in Benghazi, they are also impugning both the honor and the competency of General Carter Ham - a man whose honor and competence are, as far as I'm concerned, above reproach. The ultimate responsibility rests with General Ham in this matter as he was literally the man with the immediate authority to intervene if he deemed it necessary. That he chose not to do so tells me all I need to know - that he realized by the time his QRF arrived, the attack would be over and sending fully armed soldiers into the middle of a hornets nest didn't work out so well in Mogadishu. Basically what I'm saying, in the most polite way I can, is that you have no idea what you are talking about and your desire to make the President look bad is also causing you to insult perhaps the greatest living American field officer. One should be careful before making such claims, especially if they are being made from a position of ignorance.

first, thank you for serving our country,
second, you can say and think what you want about the generals involved etc since you have personal experience with the man you have a unique perspective that I do not have. However, the reason I "hurl doo doo at the prez" is because he is the commander in chief, top dog, so to speak so I ultimately hold him responsible. I have no problem holding others responsible too, sometimes just following orders is the wrong thing to do. Sometimes even honorable men dishonor. Everyone down the line needs to be held responsible, I could honestly care less about hurting the feelings of those involved in this debacle when there are four families grieving and missing justice for their loved ones because honorable men did nothing after their superiors told them to stand down while they cooked up some BS excuse about a lame internet video.

 

[Arin Morris]

Here is overpasses.org's "dirty dozen" for wanting to impeach Obama.

 

[uncle money bags]

Here is overpasses.org's "dirty dozen" for wanting to impeach Obama.

how dare you try and get this thread back on topic. shame.