They think those big clips kill?

[donner]

Based on some of the CCLs I have seen out and about at the range, I am going to say very few are "properly trained".

I am by no means anti-gun. but there are a lot of idiots carrying them.

+1

Not to mention the fact that people who 'are' properly trained don't always hit what they are aiming at during moments of high stress. Imagine how many people were running in front of/away from the shooter. Plus, i'd be worried that one of the 'not properly trained' ccl holders would get tunnel vision and see my gun and decide i was the shooter.

I think it's as dumb to say more guns would have solved this problem as it is dumb to say that limiting him to a low-round count mag. Both 'solutions' assume a lot about the situation and neither are provable.

 

[donner]

Wow! I sure pissed of the Dirty Harry fan club this morning.

How about 40 of you stand in a 20 ft circle and fire at a target in the center? Don't be afraid, you're all properly trained. To add a little reality to the exercise we'll have 100 screaming and crying people running in all directions including through the circle.

Clearly, all they really want is to be able to make your day.

 

[Steve]

Wow! I sure pissed of the Dirty Harry fan club this morning.

How about 40 of you stand in a 20 ft circle and fire at a target in the center? Don't be afraid, you're all properly trained. To add a little reality to the exercise we'll have 100 screaming and crying people running in all directions including through the circle.

i think we all just want a good solid reason that this unfortunate incident happened (something to pin it on), and unfortunately with mental issues there is no good reason. damn shame

 

[WhiteyMacD]

Bad shots aside,... I have always been afraid of the following scenario.

Shots ring out in a crowded public place.
I see madman A gunning people down.
Because of randomness of shootings, I feel that my family or I am in danger.
I draw my weapon, and take aim.
John Rambo with a CCL plugs me one to the head thinking I am Madman A not realising I am GoodGuy A.
Funeral.
Wife cant afford house.
Daughter grows up without a good strong male in her life.
Daughter becomes stripper.

I DONT WANT NO STRIPPER DAUGHTER!

 

[NikatKimber]

The reason it happened is the guy was a nut.

Nothing we could do would stop such an incident. Sad fact of human life, is some don't have respect for each others life.

Limiting mag capacity wouldn't help, nor would issuing M249s to everyone in attendance. What would help, is a mindset of the people there of being willing to act when atrocities happen. What was done in Tucson, is what should have been done (I wish it would have happened sooner though). Tackle the person and take the gun away. Starting a shootout in the middle of a crowd would hardly be the responsible thing to do there.

 

[1shot(bob)]

Wow! I sure pissed of the Dirty Harry fan club this morning.

Dirty Harry fan club? How about a group of people that are willing to fight for their rights even if it doesn't make sense to some other people?

How about 40 of you stand in a 20 ft circle and fire at a target in the center? Don't be afraid, you're all properly trained. To add a little reality to the exercise we'll have 100 screaming and crying people running in all directions including through the circle.

I agree that it's an impossible situation, but to go to either extreme is abhorring to me. Let's not have every Tom, Dick or Harry spraying bullets at the bad guy, and let's not disarm each of them either. Surely there is a middle ground somewhere.

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

I don't agree with banning high cap mags, but I can't jump on board with the "more shots fired" crowd either. Like Nikat said, the situation was handled about as well as it could have been.

 

[jarhead983]

...I agree that it's an impossible situation, but to go to either extreme is abhorring to me. Let's not have every Tom, Dick or Harry spraying bullets at the bad guy, and let's not disarm each of them either. Surely there is a middle ground somewhere.

Fortunately there is a middle ground. Allow those who are so inclined to carry, to carry. I don't think that there would be a huge increase in the number of people who would carry if it was legal without restrictions. I mean this as AZ, probably the most liberal of states in regards to carrying and there apparently wasn't anyone with a weapon at the incident. Obviously not everyone started carrying when they made it easier to do so. Most people, even pro-gun people, don't carry on a normal basis.

In regards to the shooting, I don't regard the 2 men who tackled the shooter as being heros. I mean how could you sit there while 18 people are shot and then only when the shooter is reloading, spring into action. I would feel guilty for every one of those 18 victims if I didn't stop it Sure you couldn't have prevented the first or second victims, but you sure as hell could have tried to stop 3 - 18. Yes you may be shot, but you have the same chance while doing nothing. I would rather have any holes in me be from the front then in the back.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

In regards to the shooting, I don't regard the 2 men who tackled the shooter as being heros. I mean how could you sit there while 18 people are shot and then only when the shooter is reloading, spring into action. I would feel guilty for every one of those 18 victims if I didn't stop it Sure you couldn't have prevented the first or second victims, but you sure as hell could have tried to stop 3 - 18. Yes you may be shot, but you have the same chance while doing nothing. I would rather have any holes in me be from the front then in the back.

 

[1shot(bob)]

I somehow doubt that had 40 plus people in the crowd been carrying that they all would have pulled weapons and started shooting at the perp, or even at each other, not knowing who the bad guy was. Had I been in the crowd I would not have done any shooting unless I was sure I was going after the right guy, and was doing it in a way as not to harm the innocents.

Touting either extreme as normal is crazy.

How long did it take for this entire scenario to play out. I don't know, but I bet it was seconds, not minutes. I would bet most people were still trying to comprehend exactly what was happening, and not anywhere near ready to start reacting defensively, other than to run. To think you could have gotten to him before he emptied the first magazine seems unlikely.
Unfortunately, it probably did play out as well as could be imagined.