TPD Investigation over Community Event

[Buzzgun]

Wonder what would happen if the Chief ordered a muslim officer to attend an appreciation BBQ (complete with smoked pork) at a Baptist church......

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

Don't know about public officials and their policies but in private business it is common for people to be expected to attend many functions even when on their own time.

Michael

I don't think that you can require an hourly employee to attend a function without pay. However, you can bend a salaried employee over a barrel and dry **** all day long.

 

[poopgiggle]

Wonder what would happen if the Chief ordered a muslim officer to attend an appreciation BBQ (complete with smoked pork) at a Baptist church......

Well either he'd go and enjoy the awesome potato salad that always comes with Baptist barbecue or he'd yell something about 1st Amendment Rights so he didn't have to "be cornered by your holly man unable to respond and tell you how such and such belief of yours is full of it." No one should be forced to endure that, you know.

 

[HMFIC]

I'll bet the union can solve this...

 

[Colberjs]

At some point, doesn't your responsibility to be a responsible civil servant (in this case, building good community relations) supersede whatever personal religious beliefs you have?

I'm really asking. I don't know the answer to this.

Nothing "supercedes" my religious beliefs.

I completely disagree that it supersedes your religous beliefs.

Fortunately my religion tells me that I should render to Caesar what is Caesar's.

My attendence will have nothing to do with their religion.

My religion tells me to uphold my vows, one of which was to obey the lawful orders of my superior officers.

A cursory examination of history should show that among western religions, there should be no conflict for a warrior.

Michael Brown

Rendering to Caesar what is Caesar's only goes as far as not contradicting God' law. When Caesar's law contradicts God's law then God's law trumps. Now you just have to figure out for yourself if going to this event would be in violation of what you believe to be God's law.

I don't think that you can require an hourly employee to attend a function without pay. However, you can bend a salaried employee over a barrel and dry **** all day long.

I think whether or not the attending officers are paid for their time at this function will have a huge impact on the outcome of this case.

 

[_CY_]

this is exactly my sentiments ... our country is broke because of all the massive giveaways to HUGE Corporates and spending HUGE $$$ on boondoggles, etc...

every time a crisis come along (let's not waste a good crisis!) ... what we pay the police, fireman, Teachers, etc comes right to the top ... to distract from what the real agenda is.... which is yet more giveaways to super wealthy entities.

look at what's going on in Wi.... taking away state employee's right to negotiate is getting all the attention. But the real action is the language in the same bill, setting up giveaway of State Utilities without a competitive bid to Koch Industries or another giant.

IMHO .... when the order was issued requiring mandatory attendance ... higher ups had a good idea exactly what would happen and the publicity it would generate.

sure would give someone a pretty good excuse to put your anointed, chosen one in a key position.

As you examine the country, we are running out of money. We are not running out of money because we hire too many police officers, fire fighters, etc. Or because we pay them to much. ~

This officer looked at a boondoggle, and made the correct call. Hopefully, the higher up will be removed before he can go on to even sillier calls.

 

[Nraman]

My question was, if you feel (like Nraman does I guess? I'm not too clear on that) that even being around Muslims and hanging around with them for a short time violates your religious beliefs, wouldn't following your particular interpretation of your religion seriously impede your ability to do your job in a culturally-diverse place like the US?

I think that the example I mentioned earlier shows where I stand. I went and sat through a funeral service of a friend's dad and I had no problem that it was not my religion. I also said that the friend's wife was outside the church waiting in the limo along with his two kids. I said that I didn't agree with that but I understood why she did it. I have been to quite a few funerals and weddings and I personally don't see the issue. Others do, that's why I thought it should have been voluntary.
I don't agree with my wife's religion and I don't have a problem with that, I understand her.

 

[HMFIC]

Adding the link and text from the other thread that got locked due to this thread being open on the subject.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/23...islamic-event/
The Tulsa Police Deptartment is investigating a captain who refused an order to assign officers to attend an upcoming Islamic event because he said it would violate his religious beliefs.

Capt. Paul Fields was reassigned after he refused to order officers under his command to attend the Islamic Center of Tulsa’s Law Enforcement Appreciation Day, a spokesman for the department said.

“It is my opinion and that of my legal counsel that forcing me to enter a Mosque when it is not directly related to a police call for service is a violation of my Civil Rights,” Fields wrote in an internal police department memo obtained by Fox News.

“I have no problem with officers attending on a voluntary basis; however, I take exception to requiring officers to attend this event,” Fields wrote in an e-mail to his superior officer obtained by Fox News. “I believe this directive to be an unlawful order, as it is in direct conflict with my personal religious convictions.”

Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan told FOX23-TV the event was about community relations, not religion.

“This was not religious,” he said. “I would never assign a police officer to participate in religious service,” he told the TV station. “This is about a group who bonded together because of their religion. We are not going there because they are Islamic. We are going there because they are Tulsa citizens.”

However, according to a promotional flyer, the Islamic event included not just food and entertainment, but “presentations” on “beliefs, human rights, and women.” They would also be able to watch a Muslim prayer service and take a tour of the mosque.

“It’s up to you,” the flyer stated.

Ibrahim Hooper, the spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, called the incident an example of “anti-Muslim bigotry.”

“It’s a symptom of the unfortunately rising level of anti-Muslim sentiment we have in our society,” Hooper said. “It sends a message of marginalization that somehow Muslims aren’t part of American society.”

Hooper said he was satisfied with the way the police department handled the matter but said the incident signals a bigger issue.

“When somebody feels empowered to say ‘I’m not going to take part in a community outreach event at a mosque because I basically don’t like Muslims,’ it’s all part of that rise in Islamophobia in our society,” he said.

Gary Allison, a professor at the University of Tulsa College of Law, said the case poses a dilemma.

“It is true that individuals have their own religious beliefs and that they come to their workplace with their own religious beliefs,” Allison said. “The question is, how far can an employer go to require people to go against their religious beliefs for something to do the job that they are supposed to do?”

 

[MaddSkillz]

What the police chief says and what the flyer says are two opposing things... So which is it?

Whoa, deja vu.

 

[Glocktogo]

I think the Captain has a case based on the contradiction between what the flyer says and what the chief says. Sadly, that's irrelevant. He's a Captain and is expected to follow management directives, because he's part of said management. His career in TPD is toast regardless of the outcome.