I have read all the above posts on this topic and it seems to me there is only one question that needs to be asked and that is…
Were the officers “On Duty”, “On the Clock”, were they being paid by the City to be there? If the answer is No, then the good Captain has a case, if the answer is Yes, then he has no case.
Why because if you’re on the clock and being paid, then to me it’s an assignment for the day, and as a leader, it would be his job to assign others to do the same. Why, because they are also on the clock and being paid.
It does sound like there was a miscommunication of expectations from the deputy Chief to the Captain. The Captain should have been told why the assignment was made, what the department or City could gain by going, and what the goals and expectations were for the City and TPD.
Lastly, the deputy Chief should tell all those that are attending the three will be a debrief the officers who went to see what they learned and if there should there be any modifications in the way TPD would police members of this segment of the community.
Now if the citizens of Tulsa don’t like the fact that TPD is expending their resources a certain way, then they can take it up with the Chief, Mayor and the City Counsel. Don’t get me started on that cluster. Okay stepping off my soap box now.
Were the officers “On Duty”, “On the Clock”, were they being paid by the City to be there? If the answer is No, then the good Captain has a case, if the answer is Yes, then he has no case.
Why because if you’re on the clock and being paid, then to me it’s an assignment for the day, and as a leader, it would be his job to assign others to do the same. Why, because they are also on the clock and being paid.
It does sound like there was a miscommunication of expectations from the deputy Chief to the Captain. The Captain should have been told why the assignment was made, what the department or City could gain by going, and what the goals and expectations were for the City and TPD.
Lastly, the deputy Chief should tell all those that are attending the three will be a debrief the officers who went to see what they learned and if there should there be any modifications in the way TPD would police members of this segment of the community.
Now if the citizens of Tulsa don’t like the fact that TPD is expending their resources a certain way, then they can take it up with the Chief, Mayor and the City Counsel. Don’t get me started on that cluster. Okay stepping off my soap box now.
It's all going to depend on the judge's opinion of whether or not this was a "religious" event.
If he decides it was a community event simply being held at a religious institution then it will be a simple matter; You must follow orders.
If he decides it was a religious event, the administration will have some 'splaining to do.
I will be attending (primarily out of curiosity and a desire for free chicken) but will not be participating in any religious ceremony there unless they all decide to become Episcopalians with me. If anyone attempts to coerce me to do anything I am uncomfortable with, I will simply shake hands and excuse myself as politely as they will let me.
Until then, I will enjoy some chicken and baklava.
Michael Brown
That seems like the professional, kind, reasonable and personable way to handle the situation to me! (Your legal fees will likely be quite small to non-existent as well.)
Bryan
That seems like the professional, kind, reasonable and personable way to handle the situation to me! (Your legal fees will likely be quite small to non-existent as well.)
Bryan
Fingers crossed.
Michael Brown
When you said "dance", for some reason this came to mind, maybe it's the avatar.
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=rCDoBvG1HoI&feature=related
You sir are brilliant. Never has a movie scene captured the very true persona of a person as the one you have chosen.
I've got to admit, this is a difficult situation for me to reconcile.
On the one hand, I fully support anyone who believes their religious beliefs prevent them from doing something unless it intrudes on the true nature of their job. I think this incident fits this description. It could have easily been filled with volunteers.
On the other hand, intellectually I cannot reconcile exactly what prevents a Christian from going to a mosque........
I am not a religious scholar (and I recognize I've made the huge assumption that those who believe it conflicts with their religious beliefs are Christians, in which I include Catholics and Eastern Orthodox) but I am prepping to attend seminary so I'm not totally uneducated in theology and Christian history, but I'm not quite sure what grounds one uses Biblically to oppose going to a mosque if you are not being forced to worship there.
It seems that any grounds one uses Biblically to prevent someone from walking into a community event at a mosque (or any other Christian denomination or Synagogue) is shaky or taken out of context at best.
I know the Captain involved, went to the police academy with him, worked for him, and consider him a friend but I just can't buy the argument. Paul is VERY intelligent and I simply can't grasp his point of view on this.
That said, I 110% support his decision if he truly believes his 1st Amendment rights have been violated and I believe he's smart enough to know for certain and honorable enough not to do it just to make a point.
All in all, it's just a freakin' mess.
Michael Brown
On the one hand, I fully support anyone who believes their religious beliefs prevent them from doing something unless it intrudes on the true nature of their job. I think this incident fits this description. It could have easily been filled with volunteers.
On the other hand, intellectually I cannot reconcile exactly what prevents a Christian from going to a mosque........
I am not a religious scholar (and I recognize I've made the huge assumption that those who believe it conflicts with their religious beliefs are Christians, in which I include Catholics and Eastern Orthodox) but I am prepping to attend seminary so I'm not totally uneducated in theology and Christian history, but I'm not quite sure what grounds one uses Biblically to oppose going to a mosque if you are not being forced to worship there.
It seems that any grounds one uses Biblically to prevent someone from walking into a community event at a mosque (or any other Christian denomination or Synagogue) is shaky or taken out of context at best.
I know the Captain involved, went to the police academy with him, worked for him, and consider him a friend but I just can't buy the argument. Paul is VERY intelligent and I simply can't grasp his point of view on this.
That said, I 110% support his decision if he truly believes his 1st Amendment rights have been violated and I believe he's smart enough to know for certain and honorable enough not to do it just to make a point.
All in all, it's just a freakin' mess.
Michael Brown
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