What kills?

[Koshinn]

-Bigger bullets are better than smaller ones.
-More velocity is better than less velocity.

But what's better, bigger or faster? Is a 308 round better or worse than a .75 cal musket ball (which has more than twice the diameter)?

 

[SMS]

bad polls kill.....

 

[cayton]

Here's a more realistic scenario:
"8 drug crazed ex-Marines with ptsd and razor sharp K-Bars (or other similar bad dudes) are outside your bedroom door. They will come in through the door and try to take your head off in 0.5 second increments. You have a choice between two handguns, lets say a 9mm and a .45. The 9mm has 16 rounds (such as a Beretta 92FS/M9) and the .45 has 8 rounds (such as a 1911). You have practiced with both and shoot each equally well. You choose."

I'll take the 9mm, thank you very much. I'd rather not have to be in a situation in which I need to hit each bad guy with exactly 1 round in a vital location. If I missed just one, one of the drug crazed ex-marines will kill me. If I had a 9mm, I'd get two chances at each. And really, you expect 8 drug crazed ex-Marines to charge in one at a time? Sober Marines would charge you as a group. Drug crazed ex-Marines would probably clog the door.

The 9mm vs .45 argument is not really about velocity vs mass. It's about a 9mm hole vs a 11.5mm hole and the extra ammunition and faster follow up shots that the 9mm round has to make up for the smaller diameter.

I submit a third option, as demonstrated by the venerable Dr. Jones...
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/7/7a/IJLC-P38_shoot3guysA.jpg

 

[Glocktogo]

bad polls kill.....

This. I can't believe this thread is still limping along. Most informed shooters now understand that worrying excessively over whether 9mm or .45 is better for defense is applying a hardware solution to a software problem. Mental preparedness, skill & training are so much more important than which of the commonly accepted defense calibers to choose as to make that choice statistically insignificant. If you shoot a 9mm better, choose it and carry it. If you shoot a .45 equally well or better and it gives you warm fuzzies, by all means choose it.

If you choose a "more powerful" caliber because you think it's power will make up for you marginal shooting ability with it, then you're a fool. Just remember, the world doesn't suffer fools lightly.

 

[NINEROUND]

I realize we all have our own opinions on this topic, but in defense of the scenario I presented, it clearly stated 8 shots of either given caliber, not sixteen or eighty nines vs 8 .45s. If we want to go that route, make the guns a glock 21, xd, or fnp. Brings the count for the .45 to 14 rounds. How does that effect the equation? Now, same scenario:8 bad guys, your choice of caliber. There was. Reason the military went from the light ineffective .38 back to a colt single action 45 during the Moro uprising....and later a round designed to replicate the ballistics in an automatic. Just saying.

 

[HMFIC]

I think it's probably a more useful discussion to talk about what DOESN'T KILL.

We seem to mostly all agree that training and shot placement are paramount.

I would submit that the .25 ACP and .41 Rimfire should never be carried for self defense unless it is the only option available other than a rock.

Ps. I still prefer to always have my .45

 

[PDN]

Well placed 9mm...

Shot placement

 

[MoBoost]

This. I can't believe this thread is still limping along. Most informed shooters now understand that worrying excessively over whether 9mm or .45 is better for defense is applying a hardware solution to a software problem. Mental preparedness, skill & training are so much more important than which of the commonly accepted defense calibers to choose as to make that choice statistically insignificant. If you shoot a 9mm better, choose it and carry it. If you shoot a .45 equally well or better and it gives you warm fuzzies, by all means choose it.

If you choose a "more powerful" caliber because you think it's power will make up for you marginal shooting ability with it, then you're a fool. Just remember, the world doesn't suffer fools lightly.

+100

(stealing epic quote for the sig)

 

[AKguy1985]

I realize we all have our own opinions on this topic, but in defense of the scenario I presented, it clearly stated 8 shots of either given caliber, not sixteen or eighty nines vs 8 .45s. If we want to go that route, make the guns a glock 21, xd, or fnp. Brings the count for the .45 to 14 rounds. How does that effect the equation? Now, same scenario:8 bad guys, your choice of caliber. There was. Reason the military went from the light ineffective .38 back to a colt single action 45 during the Moro uprising....and later a round designed to replicate the ballistics in an automatic. Just saying.

I think the Moros were also hopped up on drugs

 

[JD8]

Looks like I'me very late to the thread.....

What kills?
Here are the answers:
1) Central Nervous System shutdown
2) Hydraulic Failure

-Bigger bullets are better than smaller ones.
-More velocity is better than less velocity.
These two things are only true if obtaining them doesn't significantly compromise your ability to shoot fast and accurately.

That's it....end of story.


Somebody *please* argue with me.....

But.... but...... mass is insignificant in making holes in someone!!