Stop trying to drum up work ... lol
Stop trying to drum up work ... lol
The above is the issue.
Section E is not active in the sense that it prohibits an officer from disarming a cititzen; it merely states that the SDA does not grant him the specific authority to do so. That is done by federal caselaw.
That is what everyone who thinks disarming during the course of a traffic stop is illegal does not seem to understand.
I would be interested in knowing how many of those who say this practice is against the law have any practical experience or education in the law i.e. a law degree, LEO, expert witness etc.
Opinions of those who work in this area are not the equal of a hobbyist. An individual without experience/education in this area frequently misinterprets some fairly simple concepts i.e. all the folks who still don't understand the concept of affirmative defense as in the Ersland case.
No matter how much people want it to be so, they are incorrect in this matter when it comes to the legality of temporarily securing a weapon during a traffic stop.
Michael Brown
Michael,
I've got a question as it relates to physically securing someones handgun, this is not a bash or an argument about it's legality, I'm sincerely curious. How does the typical officer handle a firearm they are not familiar with?
I've only had my carry gun taken during a stop once. The officer asked me out of my truck and told me to put my EMP on the seat muzzle away from him then back away from it. He walked up to it, dropped the mag then tugged on the slide for 10-15 seconds. I told him he had to push the safety lever down before the slide could be pulled back. During this whole time I was just waiting for the gun to go off since it was very apparent the officer wasn't familiar with 1911's. I only ask since I've seen people who shoot regularly and have large collections not know how to safely operate some firearms just because they weren't familiar with that particular gun.
I stood at the tailgate of my truck for the rest of the stop with my unloaded EMP sitting on the driver's seat. When the stop was over (got a verbal warning about a tail light being out) he told me to not load my gun again until I was home. I'm going to admit here that I ignored that particular order.
It just seems to me that the safest way to secure a handgun is just to remove it from the person, I know of at least 4 instances where experienced shooters had accidents while unloading a pistol (3 were detonations and 1 forgot to remove the magazine, just racked a new one in and bam). Unloading the gun and other fiddling just seems to be tempting fate when a loaded gun away from anyone is pretty inert.
If this sounds like bashing I apologize, only wanted to ask a question.
GT
I've got a question as it relates to physically securing someones handgun, this is not a bash or an argument about it's legality, I'm sincerely curious. How does the typical officer handle a firearm they are not familiar with?
I've only had my carry gun taken during a stop once. The officer asked me out of my truck and told me to put my EMP on the seat muzzle away from him then back away from it. He walked up to it, dropped the mag then tugged on the slide for 10-15 seconds. I told him he had to push the safety lever down before the slide could be pulled back. During this whole time I was just waiting for the gun to go off since it was very apparent the officer wasn't familiar with 1911's. I only ask since I've seen people who shoot regularly and have large collections not know how to safely operate some firearms just because they weren't familiar with that particular gun.
I stood at the tailgate of my truck for the rest of the stop with my unloaded EMP sitting on the driver's seat. When the stop was over (got a verbal warning about a tail light being out) he told me to not load my gun again until I was home. I'm going to admit here that I ignored that particular order.
It just seems to me that the safest way to secure a handgun is just to remove it from the person, I know of at least 4 instances where experienced shooters had accidents while unloading a pistol (3 were detonations and 1 forgot to remove the magazine, just racked a new one in and bam). Unloading the gun and other fiddling just seems to be tempting fate when a loaded gun away from anyone is pretty inert.
If this sounds like bashing I apologize, only wanted to ask a question.
GT
Your question is very legitimate.
Just to be clear, I don't agree with the practice of disarming a legal SDA license holder during a traffic stop for a number of reasons but one of the most significant is the one you mention here.
I don't know what they do as I've never seen a citizen disarmed on a traffic stop if they had a legally concealed firearm. I presume it has happened but I've never seen it personally.
I have seen officers have trouble clearing a firearm they were not familiar with during an arrest but then you have a larger time period and usually a handcuffed suspect that gets seperated from the firearm. Then they usually call one of us that is into guns and will probably know how to clear it.
I also would have ignored the order not to load until I got home and don't blame you a bit for doing so.
Michael Brown
Not if it's OK with me.I've had 2 encounters.One was a friendly OHP trooper who asked where it was,in a fanny pack(I was on my way to the lake),he removed it and put in the front seat of my truck.We had a pleasant visit,he let me go w/o a ticket(I was speeding).I believe if I had pulled a "1shot(bob)",he would have likely written me a ticket so I see my cooperation here as a big financial win.The second time was kind of funny.I was on my motorcycle and pulled over by a tpd m/c officer.I told him I was armed and licensed and he looked me in the eye,smiled and said "so?".It made me laugh.Oh yeah,no ticket again.
Ok, I'll post my positive encounter when I was speeding. Was going through Leonard and of course I wasn't paying attention to my speed and got pulled over by a Tulsa County SUV. So I pull over and he gets on the loud speaker and says bring your license and insurance back here. So I go walking back thinking this sucks. I open the passenger door and tell him I have a CCL and CCW is in the truck. He says ok, and I sat down and give him all my paperwork. D/L, I/V, and CCL. Writes me a warning tells me to slow down and off I go. Pretty postivie in my book. He never asked what it was, if it was loaded or where in my truck it was.
I may of got a warning from the LEO but not from my wife who was sitting in the truck. I heard about it all the way home.
I may of got a warning from the LEO but not from my wife who was sitting in the truck. I heard about it all the way home.
Isn't that how it works?? I've been pulled over 5 times, I think, since I married the old JBT and never has anyone relieved me of my gun or guns ... Of course, everyone here will think it's just because I'm getting preferential treatment but 3 of those times the officer pulling me over had no idea I was a JBT's wife until we got to chatting about guns ...
One time I got "Good for you. I wish more people carried."
Another time I wound up on the shoulder of the highway playing show and tell with the officer. (I was on my way back home from a gun deal in Tulsa that I handled for GC.)
The other two times they both said, "Well, just don't shoot me and we'll be okay."
The last time I didn't tell him I had a CCL or that my gun was in the trunk. We were having enough problems communicating that night and I didn't want to add any fuel to the fire. We got it all straightened out the next day, though, when I called and chatted with his supervisor.
Seriously, I think some people just like to try and make things hard.
The last time I didn't tell him I had a CCL or that my gun was in the trunk. We were having enough problems communicating that night and I didn't want to add any fuel to the fire. We got it all straightened out the next day, though, when I called and chatted with his supervisor.
Seriously, I think some people just like to try and make things hard.[/QUOTE]
OMG, I have so many things running through my feeble sick head right now. First, you may be why I am not a JBT, not that I could have made the muster. Second, you went from no guns to all guns faster than anyone one I know! HA! I am thinking of more kiddo!
Lone Wolf with the cork screw in hand!
Seriously, I think some people just like to try and make things hard.[/QUOTE]
OMG, I have so many things running through my feeble sick head right now. First, you may be why I am not a JBT, not that I could have made the muster. Second, you went from no guns to all guns faster than anyone one I know! HA! I am thinking of more kiddo!
Lone Wolf with the cork screw in hand!
LOL ... and you have had just as much a hand in that as that danged GC has had ... ya'll have corrupted this poor unsuspecting liberal ... I swear my "old" friends wouldn't recognize me if they saw me now!
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