It would be interesting to hear from a law enforcement officer how you would justify disarming a citizen with a valid CCW who has informed you of same in accordance with the law in light of TITLE 21 § 1290.8 which prohibits such action without probable cause.
It would be interesting to hear from a law enforcement officer how you would justify disarming a citizen with a valid CCW who has informed you of same in accordance with the law in light of TITLE 21 § 1290.8 which prohibits such action without probable cause.
If he's holding the weapon for his safety, returns it later, but not "inspecting it" (i.e. possibly running it through NCIC) I would think that is statutorily in the clear. But this is purely speculation; IANAL nor am I in law enforcement.
I've been disarmed by a police officer in routine stop before: I was driving in the boonies (Alva) and got pulled over going 10 over in the middle of the night. I handed my DL, insurance and CCW permit to the officer. Welp, I had two pits in the back of the car and they were going upsh!t - so I couldn't really talk to the officer. He asked me to come sit in his car while he runs the DL info, as soon as I get out I told him that I still have firearm on me and it is loaded and chambered. He asked me where - IWB holster, he asked if he can remove it - I said yes and reminded him that it is chambered; I lifted my shirt and he removed my pistol and set it on the trunk of my car. We went to his cruiser, chit chatted for a bit - he gave a me warning and let me go. I strapped back up and went on my way.
I didn't feel that my weapon was seized or that anything unreasonable was done. Oklahoma officers has been nothing but courteous and respectful in all my engagements - when concealed weapon was disclosed all but this one time they just checked the CCW permit and that was it.
I didn't feel that my weapon was seized or that anything unreasonable was done. Oklahoma officers has been nothing but courteous and respectful in all my engagements - when concealed weapon was disclosed all but this one time they just checked the CCW permit and that was it.
I would have problems having him handle the unseen gun that was in my IWB holster. That just seems dangerous.
I would be more than happy to remove the weapon and place it in my trunk or elsewhere during the stop, however. Handing my loaded weapon to someone that I don't know is a problem to me.
I would be more than happy to remove the weapon and place it in my trunk or elsewhere during the stop, however. Handing my loaded weapon to someone that I don't know is a problem to me.
That was my first thought - my second thought was I'm not touching my weapon around police officer unless I'm specifically instructed to do so - who knows how quick on the draw he is and how unintimidating my disarming looks.
Absolutely! I would never touch my weapon without his knowledge and approval.
Better yet, just leave it where it is and neither of us could be safer.
Better yet, just leave it where it is and neither of us could be safer.
Call me crazy, but if asked to hand over my weapon temporarily by a LEO during a stop while we conduct business, I wouldn't have much of an issue doing it.I don't sweat complying with this request, nor do I don't feel my safety is compromised by doing this. Generally people are not victims of robbery or assault while they are a participant in a traffic stop.
Now if the weapon is not returned, effectively confiscated or seized, then an issue arises.
Bingo! I agree 100%
The Attorney General has plainly stated that "inspection" does not affect the issues laid out in Terry V. Ohio and is superseded by federal caselaw.
The legislators who wrote it were concerned about officers using traffic stops as opportunities to check for stolen guns or to develop a database of serial numbers, not to deny the officer the safety that caselaw provides him/her.
However since the Terry decision is usually applied to potential criminal activity that might be assisted by a firearm, before I would choose to disarm someone, I would be certain I had reason to do so, not disarm someone as a matter of course.
However, it is unlikely that an officer will articulate his suspicion if he is diasarming you via Terry, and he is under absolutely no obligation to do so, so my advice would be to do exactly as he says until the duration of the contact is over and if you feel your rights have been violated, file a complaint later.
The only time I have disarmed a CCW holder was when the individual had committed some other type of crime or had shot someone in self-defense in which case the disarming was for evidentiary purposes not officer safety.
I am not in favor of disarming someone during the course of a traffic stop but the legislation's intent is not to prevent it from occurring on the basis of officer safety.
Michael Brown
The police are there to protect us, but they carry guns to protect themselves. It's the same reason the rest of us carry.
Woody
Exactly. And there is damn little (read ZERO) likelihood that you are going to have to use it against an LEO in the course of a traffic stop.
So MB's advise on doing as instructed and filing a complaint later if required is the wise choice here. And I'm all about not liking "reasonableness" when it comes to gun laws. But this one does seem reasonable, for both parties.
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