Who actually made this Ppks?

[Netminder1976]

I've come across a Walther Ppks that I believe is actually made when the companies involved were in between. The serial on it ends in AAA so I'm not sure when it is made. My guess after looking around is maybe in 2000. I'm curious if anyone has any knowledge of these particular ones and who actually made it. Thanks for the help in advance. I'd just like to know what kind of trade value to ask as it is different than most I've seen. It is also two -tone.

 

[rc508pir]

Interarms was making them for a bit. Walther USA (Spingfield MA) made them for about 2 years before SW took over. Call Walther, they will be able to tell you more.

The good thing is, if its a lemon, Walther will fix it

 

[druryj]

Nice PPK/S. I would post this, including the pics, on the Walther Forum; in particular in the section about the PP series pistols. There are some real experts out there with a wealth of knowledge on the various incarnations of the PP, PPK and PPK/S guns. Now, I have had several of these, and I do know quite a bit about them, but my knowledge is not 100% ...so, take all I have to say for what it's worth... it's basically my learned opinion. I have a beautiful PPK/S in stainless made by Interarms (Ranger ) from 1995 that I bought new and had engraved some, it now sits in a small safe at my Daughter's house, to be given to my youngest Grandson when he is old enough. The one you show here, I am almost certain, is a model actually made by the Ranger Manufacturing Co, in Gadsden, Alabama for Interarms. You are correct in that it dates from when Interarms basically went defunct following the death of the man behind it in 1998, Sam Cummings (https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Interarms/interarms.html) and S&W took over production of these under license from Walther Arms in Germany. See, when the transition was taking place, there was quite a bit of inventory and parts that moved over to possession and ownership of and by S&W. What you have is actually an Interarms pistol, made by Ranger in the mid to late 90's , and acquired by S&W and then subsequently assembled by S&W people in Springfield. They are very good pistols, as Interarms (and thus Ranger, who actually machined the parts and made the guns for Interarms) did follow Herr Walther's original design. Shortly thereafter, S&W took it upon themselves to make some changes to Walther's original design, most noticeably, an extension of the beavertail, in a sad effort to remedy what is known as "Walther bite". Many is the shooter, who, hoping to emulate 007 himself, painfully discovered exactly what that is as the slide of the little PP series pistols would slice a nice little groove in the flesh between one's thumb and forefinger. It was not a design flaw of the gun itself, (so say the purists) but a fault in the way the shooter gripped the pistol. You have to hold it like you mean it and be aware as to the location of your grip or you to, will discover the Walther's bite. S&W, in my opinion and the opinion of many others, ruined the classic lines of the gun by adding that horrendously ugly tang extension. Another change they made was to remove the "jump" between feed ramp and chamber, in an effort to make the gun feed modern HP ammo better. The Walther PP design dates from 1929, and was never intended to feed HP ammo; it wasn't even around then. This particular pistol should only be fed 95 gr round nose ball ammo. Most will function very well with Fiocchi 95 gr, as European ammo tends to run a bit hotter than US made ammo like Remington, or S&W. The S&W flat nose 95 gr FMJ is hit or miss in these pistols, and I would never carry it as a serious self defense round. Now, I haven't carried my PPK/S in a few years as a CCW weapon, but back when I did, it ran on Fiocchi 95 gr round nose FMJ, and it was incredibly accurate and reliable. It is not my first or even second choice today, as there are far better guns and ammo available now. As a matter of fact, the originals were actually designed around .32 ACP and the .380 ACP versions came quite a bit later. But I digress...your pistol looks to be in good condition. Given it appears that you have the box and two mags, I'd value it at between $450 - $550. I would have to look at it closer to be more sure, but that's a fairly accurate ballpark number. Hope this helps.

(P.S. Walther Arms in Ft Smith, AR, now makes several Walther branded guns for the company now. But Umarex, who makes airsoft and BB guns, bought out Walther in Germany several years ago, and several of their pistols may say "Walther" on them, but they are still in reality, Umarex junk. Stick with real Walthers, like the PPS and the PPQ and you are okay, the others, I wouldn't disgrace my safe with the crap. In fact, the folks in Ft Smith are making (or were anyway) the PPK/S again, but using the S&W model...if you call them, you will probably be told that there is some "licensing hang-up" between them and "Germany" preventing them fro shipping the guns to dealers in the USA for now. And since they have decided to deviate from Herr Walther's design, in favor of the unbelievably ugly version of S&W, they can keep the ugly azz things for all I care.

By the way, here’s mine, with a vintage (and real)Allessi Pancake holster Lou Allessi himself made:

 

[rc508pir]

Nice PPK/S. I would post this, including the pics, on the Walther Forum; in particular in the section about the PP series pistols. There are some real experts out there with a wealth of knowledge on the various incarnations of the PP, PPK and PPK/S guns. Now, I have had several of these, and I do know quite a bit about them, but my knowledge is not 100% ...so, take all I have to say for what it's worth... it's basically my learned opinion. I have a beautiful PPK/S in stainless made by Interarms (Ranger ) from 1995 that I bought new and had engraved some, it now sits in a small safe at my Daughter's house, to be given to my youngest Grandson when he is old enough. The one you show here, I am almost certain, is a model actually made by the Ranger Manufacturing Co, in Gadsden, Alabama for Interarms. You are correct in that it dates from when Interarms basically went defunct following the death of the man behind it in 1998, Sam Cummings (https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Interarms/interarms.html) and S&W took over production of these under license from Walther Arms in Germany. See, when the transition was taking place, there was quite a bit of inventory and parts that moved over to possession and ownership of and by S&W. What you have is actually an Interarms pistol, made by Ranger in the mid to late 90's , and acquired by S&W and then subsequently assembled by S&W people in Springfield. They are very good pistols, as Interarms (and thus Ranger, who actually machined the parts and made the guns for Interarms) did follow Herr Walther's original design. Shortly thereafter, S&W took it upon themselves to make some changes to Walther's original design, most noticeably, an extension of the beavertail, in a sad effort to remedy what is known as "Walther bite". Many is the shooter, who, hoping to emulate 007 himself, painfully discovered exactly what that is as the slide of the little PP series pistols would slice a nice little groove in the flesh between one's thumb and forefinger. It was not a design flaw of the gun itself, (so say the purists) but a fault in the way the shooter gripped the pistol. You have to hold it like you mean it and be aware as to the location of your grip or you to, will discover the Walther's bite. S&W, in my opinion and the opinion of many others, ruined the classic lines of the gun by adding that horrendously ugly tang extension. Another change they made was to remove the "jump" between feed ramp and chamber, in an effort to make the gun feed modern HP ammo better. The Walther PP design dates from 1929, and was never intended to feed HP ammo; it wasn't even around then. This particular pistol should only be fed 95 gr round nose ball ammo. Most will function very well with Fiocchi 95 gr, as European ammo tends to run a bit hotter than US made ammo like Remington, or S&W. The S&W flat nose 95 gr FMJ is hit or miss in these pistols, and I would never carry it as a serious self defense round. Now, I haven't carried my PPK/S in a few years as a CCW weapon, but back when I did, it ran on Fiocchi 95 gr round nose FMJ, and it was incredibly accurate and reliable. It is not my first or even second choice today, as there are far better guns and ammo available now. As a matter of fact, the originals were actually designed around .32 ACP and the .380 ACP versions came quite a bit later. But I digress...your pistol looks to be in good condition. Given it appears that you have the box and two mags, I'd value it at between $450 - $550. I would have to look at it closer to be more sure, but that's a fairly accurate ballpark number. Hope this helps.

I had forgotten that you had of these, or would have directed the OP to you

 

[druryj]

Looking further at your pics, I can tell you that the markings on your slide on the left side are exactly like the older Interarms guns, made by Ranger. The only real difference is the guns were marked "Interarms" on the right side by Interarms, and yours is marked "Walther LLC ,Springfield", which ID's it as one of the earliest in the period of transition between acquisition by S&W and the subsequent changes they made and the actual manufacturing of the pistols by them. Yep; your gun is a Ranger baby.

 

[Netminder1976]

Thanks DruryJ!. That's more information than I found Googling for awhile last night. I was watching Hickok45 on YouTube and he mentioned the Walther bite. It drew my interest to investigate it after I noticed mine was a little different especially that it didn't say Interarms or S&W.

 

[druryj]

You are very welcome. About the only other thing I can tell you is that the recoil springs on these guns have about a 1,500 round Service life. As the gun is a blow back design, the spring has to absorb the force of that steel slide slamming back, the stock springs are 20 lb, and that’s fine for the hot stuff, like Fiocchi. I found that I got better performance running a reduced power spring from Wolfe when I had to shoot weaker ammo, like Remington for example. Recoil springs are cheap; I’d buy them by the 3-pack from Wolfe and change them out maybe a bit sooner, say 1,200 rounds or so. These guns were solidly built; not like a lot of more modern pistols, but why risk battering your frame to an early grave when you can give it a fresh spring for a few bucks. Also, any of the grips made for either the original German made PP or PPK/S or by Interarms will fit. The ones made for S&W guns will not fit right so be careful if you spend money on new grips. Fleabay often has some cool ones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Netminder1976]

I thought the marking on the barrel at the ejection port was a scratch but I noticed it on pictures of some others. It seems to be a VA marking from doing research. The sku on the box starts with VA as well. Do you know what it stands for? Virginia?

 

[druryj]

View attachment 117056 I thought the marking on the barrel at the ejection port was a scratch but I noticed it on pictures of some others. It seems to be a VA marking from doing research. The sku on the box starts with VA as well. Do you know what it stands for? Virginia?

I used to know, but I just can’t remember exactly what it is now. It’s a proof mark of some kind, you can go to the Walter forum and search. You’ll no doubt learn a lot more cool stuff about these by doing this anyway. It’s on mine too, but not as visible in this pic.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Netminder1976]

Thanks DruryJ. I guess it's time for me to make myself an account over there and check it out. Thanks again.