Edit
Farmerbyron, this could be what I need. Will PM you.
Edit: Have been watching youtube videos of Desert Eagle. They are getting rounds downrange, staying on target, just as quick as .45 or 9mm. Doesn't have a high capacity mag like the .45 where 14 hits are necessary to stop a BG.
Farmerbyron, this could be what I need. Will PM you.
Edit: Have been watching youtube videos of Desert Eagle. They are getting rounds downrange, staying on target, just as quick as .45 or 9mm. Doesn't have a high capacity mag like the .45 where 14 hits are necessary to stop a BG.
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As Scar said... Be Prepaaaaaaared.
Real.....Talk.....
Good read. Reminded me of a similar story posted here a couple years ago.
Cop wounded and hit attacker 22 times, 17 center mass with 40 cal and he was still fighting.
http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-peter-soulis-inci
Cop wounded and hit attacker 22 times, 17 center mass with 40 cal and he was still fighting.
http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-peter-soulis-inci
If what you're doing isn't working you should probably try something different. It's too easy to get locked into that tunnel vision mode. If you shoot the suspect 15 times or taser him 15 times, that may be 13 times too many.
http://www.frontiersman.com/news/de...cle_16e51878-d542-11e1-9fcc-001a4bcf887a.html
“Compton was Tasered approximately 15 times, Tasered with 12-guage XREP rounds which he tore out with no effect. Compton was hit with five 12-guage bean bag rounds as well with no apparent effect.”
http://www.frontiersman.com/news/de...cle_16e51878-d542-11e1-9fcc-001a4bcf887a.html
“Compton was Tasered approximately 15 times, Tasered with 12-guage XREP rounds which he tore out with no effect. Compton was hit with five 12-guage bean bag rounds as well with no apparent effect.”
When I started out as a LEO it was right around the big shift from 9mm to .45acp among many departments due to the big gunfight at the time where the 9mm was seen as ineffective. As a result of that almost every officer I knew that was carrying a 9mm switched to the .45acp while others like the OHP switched to .40S&W Glocks iirc. That also meant the market was flooded with 9mm's, S&W and Glock probably being two most common. It also meant as a rookie with not much money I was able to buy my gun real cheap if I stayed with the 9mm, which I did. It was actually my chiefs duty carry gun so I knew it was a well cared for gun. It was a stainless S&W model 59 that had been customized a little by having the "shiny" toned down on what I think was a nickel slide. The gun was the first Gen of the high capacity double stack 9mms and shot like a dream (I'd give anything to have it back or even find another non-blued 59).
I was at the time, and continue to be, of the mind that having a generous amount of spare ammo on tap is a good thing. I couldn't imagine a worse scenario than being in an active gunfight and run dry so I carried four spare mags of 15 rounds each in addition to the 15+1 in my gun. I can't count how many times I was asked why I carried 76 rounds total when many officers at the time had switched to the S&W 4506 which held 8 in the mag and generally only carried two spares which adds up to 25 total. The honest answer was because I could, the high capacity mags didn't take much space up so why not.
As for the officer in this story you just have to accept that in rare cases something like that can happen. I'll guarantee there are still enough American veterans around that can give you more cases of the .45acp dropping bad guys in a hurry. In WWII the Germans were not a big fan of the 1911 because of how deadly it was, they feared being in a close quarter fight with an American armed with the 1911. From 1911 to today the .45acp has proved itself as a superior man stopping cartridge above and beyond any other. Nowadays with ammo being so good you can get similar results with a 9mm but those same technologies are applied to the .45acp also which puts it right back to the top. I can understand this shootout story make people wonder about the capability of their current .45 but you have to look at the complete picture not just a tiny part of it. In other words changing from a proven defensive caliber to something else due to this one situation is a huge overreaction. The fact is whether you're shooting a 9mm or a .45acp if you use quality ammunition, a quality weapon and stay proficient with your chosen caliber you're ok. There's no need to carry an RPG just because there's a tiny chance someone is going to attack you with a tank. The world didn't change because of this one officers gunfight, everything that was..still is. If a bad guy attacks you and you shoot him with your 9mm or your .45acp center mass there is almost no chance he's going to continue. Switching to a .44magnum is actually going to do the opposite of what you want to happen if involved in a gunfight. You're limited to either 6 rounds and slow reloads or a huge semiautomatic that is extremely difficult to handle in a high stress situation. If you run into a bad guy who's running at you while shooting what's happens when your gun runs dry? Unless you're Jerry Miculek you're a dead man. Suppose you did choose to carry a .44mag and something happens where you have to defend yourself with that gun. You shoot bad guy, the bullet goes through him and injures or kills a bystander or even if the round safely buries into a wall, you will be in court regardless. Now instead of being able to defend your choice of firearm because you chose a common defensive handgun and used accepted defensive ammunition you are going to have to defend your choice of using a gun/caliber that is commonly known to be extremely destructive and a guaranteed pass through shot to a lawyer that is going to eat you like a steak in that courtroom. You will very likely be charged with a crime even if the shooting was deemed self defense.
This officer had a really scary encounter and he decided to change to a gun that he could carry more ammo. That is a logical and understandable reaction. For Joe Public to lose all faith in a proven cartridge because of what happened to this officer is an over reaction. How this bad guy survived as long as he did with the injuries he had and not be under the influence is just amazing but it's a one in a million situation. I've heard a lot of soldiers who fought in Afghanistan say they would shoot enemy soldiers over and over with their Beretta's and the bad guys kept fighting because they were so drugged up. Even shot multiple times with a 5.56 they would often survive long enough to go through another mag. Same thing happens when police get into gunfights with drugged up bad guys here in the US. When that happens you have to change the rules. If you've shot Mr. Bad Guy three times center mass and he doesn't seem phased the game has changed, now you have to look at options like head shots which are pretty difficult to do when you're being shot at but that's how it is. You don't swap your standard duty gun for a hand cannon just in case it happens because now you've handicapped yourself for the 99.999% of situations where you're required to use your weapon.
I was at the time, and continue to be, of the mind that having a generous amount of spare ammo on tap is a good thing. I couldn't imagine a worse scenario than being in an active gunfight and run dry so I carried four spare mags of 15 rounds each in addition to the 15+1 in my gun. I can't count how many times I was asked why I carried 76 rounds total when many officers at the time had switched to the S&W 4506 which held 8 in the mag and generally only carried two spares which adds up to 25 total. The honest answer was because I could, the high capacity mags didn't take much space up so why not.
As for the officer in this story you just have to accept that in rare cases something like that can happen. I'll guarantee there are still enough American veterans around that can give you more cases of the .45acp dropping bad guys in a hurry. In WWII the Germans were not a big fan of the 1911 because of how deadly it was, they feared being in a close quarter fight with an American armed with the 1911. From 1911 to today the .45acp has proved itself as a superior man stopping cartridge above and beyond any other. Nowadays with ammo being so good you can get similar results with a 9mm but those same technologies are applied to the .45acp also which puts it right back to the top. I can understand this shootout story make people wonder about the capability of their current .45 but you have to look at the complete picture not just a tiny part of it. In other words changing from a proven defensive caliber to something else due to this one situation is a huge overreaction. The fact is whether you're shooting a 9mm or a .45acp if you use quality ammunition, a quality weapon and stay proficient with your chosen caliber you're ok. There's no need to carry an RPG just because there's a tiny chance someone is going to attack you with a tank. The world didn't change because of this one officers gunfight, everything that was..still is. If a bad guy attacks you and you shoot him with your 9mm or your .45acp center mass there is almost no chance he's going to continue. Switching to a .44magnum is actually going to do the opposite of what you want to happen if involved in a gunfight. You're limited to either 6 rounds and slow reloads or a huge semiautomatic that is extremely difficult to handle in a high stress situation. If you run into a bad guy who's running at you while shooting what's happens when your gun runs dry? Unless you're Jerry Miculek you're a dead man. Suppose you did choose to carry a .44mag and something happens where you have to defend yourself with that gun. You shoot bad guy, the bullet goes through him and injures or kills a bystander or even if the round safely buries into a wall, you will be in court regardless. Now instead of being able to defend your choice of firearm because you chose a common defensive handgun and used accepted defensive ammunition you are going to have to defend your choice of using a gun/caliber that is commonly known to be extremely destructive and a guaranteed pass through shot to a lawyer that is going to eat you like a steak in that courtroom. You will very likely be charged with a crime even if the shooting was deemed self defense.
This officer had a really scary encounter and he decided to change to a gun that he could carry more ammo. That is a logical and understandable reaction. For Joe Public to lose all faith in a proven cartridge because of what happened to this officer is an over reaction. How this bad guy survived as long as he did with the injuries he had and not be under the influence is just amazing but it's a one in a million situation. I've heard a lot of soldiers who fought in Afghanistan say they would shoot enemy soldiers over and over with their Beretta's and the bad guys kept fighting because they were so drugged up. Even shot multiple times with a 5.56 they would often survive long enough to go through another mag. Same thing happens when police get into gunfights with drugged up bad guys here in the US. When that happens you have to change the rules. If you've shot Mr. Bad Guy three times center mass and he doesn't seem phased the game has changed, now you have to look at options like head shots which are pretty difficult to do when you're being shot at but that's how it is. You don't swap your standard duty gun for a hand cannon just in case it happens because now you've handicapped yourself for the 99.999% of situations where you're required to use your weapon.
You never answered the question on page 3 and I'm not sure how this post relates to the original story? As for your story, the guy was arrested without being killed or any officers injured. I'd be pretty hard pressed to argue with that result, or the one in the original story. You seem to disagree, yet you've offered no evidence as to why.
Brandi, in a court of law, I would ask my attorney to cite this case for having chosen the .44 magnum, and would provide photographs of my ability with it. The LEO was hitting houses with his misses. I wouldn't be having all those misses. And the perp would not press forward after sustaining a centermass shot. I could post photos of my .44 magnum in action, but I won't; because this is a .45/9mm world.
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He's 18deltasf man he doesn't even need a gun. He'll disarm the perp and use his own gun on him. Twice.
