Why The Prefatory Clause In The 2A?

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MadDawg

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The Military was welcomed at first and then the political administrators proceeded to alienate those who welcomed the overthrow. Hubris is a beyotch.

But I was speaking of the thousands of last ditch militia that fought and died by the hundreds on the outskirts of Bahgdad. They dug in under the heavy concrete overpasses to help defeat massive American airpower but completely underestimated the power of a Bradley chain gun. The Militia was literaly torn to bits and buried under several feet of dirt. They pelted the 3rd Herd with tens of thousands of small arms rounds during the Thunder Runs where the Mech Infantry had to hold choke points for hours. The Casualties were incrediably lopsided because the Iraqis couldnt kill what they hit.

But the survivors and new recruits learned a lesson, rather than small arms ambushes, the roadside bomb was born.

Far more American troops fell to explosive devices than small arms fire. Not artillery like former wars, but simple hand placed or bomber worn devices. Ironically the small armed equipt militias were far more effective at terrorizing fellow Iraqis than killing GIs.

One big reason, our guys wear body armor I only dreamed of back in the day.

Those comtemplating a militia should really get a grip on what modern era warfare is about. Day dreaming of the crude bridge aside, its for real deadly.

Its one thing to conduct a defense march at the state capital. another to mount continuos Ops in the rain, snow or summer heat. One thing you can bet on is if you start a 'sniper' war in urban areas the otherside will treat you the same way they treated gunmen in Stanland. They wont behave like cops.

If you want a militia for show, have fun playing army. If for real you havent a clue what you are asking for.
 
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I wouldn't label those we continue to fight in Iraq as militia. They do not fight in support of the civil government. This is not to say liberals are like insurgents, but these Iraqi insurgents are more like liberals than a militia. They can't stand it when they can't get their way, right or wrong; and any means are justified by their ends.

Woody
 

henschman

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Appleseed isn't a militia, so doesn't concern itself with things like how to disable a light armored vehicle or a main battle tank with small arms fire. Appleseed is a history, heritage, and marksmanship organization. We are mainly concerned with using rifle marksmanship, a traditional American skill, to get people together and teach them what their forefathers did to secure their liberty, and how important it is for us to continue to secure it today... not through force, but just by being active and involved citizens. We teach that if it ever becomes necessary to defend our liberty though force of arms, we have already failed and the cause is almost surely already lost. As we like to put it, we should fight the "soft war" as hard as we can so we never have to fight the "hard war." Why wouldn't "straight-thinking, realistic okies" want to be involved in something like that?

Fighting the soft war isn't easy -- take it from me, being involved in politics is frustrating and exhausting -- but it sure beats the alternative. Its called the "hard war" for a reason. Our forefathers didn't have the option of fighting the soft war. They had absolutely no representation in their government. For them, it was either fight, or live as slaves. They fought for their liberty so that their descendants never would have to again -- they gave us a way to PEACEFULLY defend our liberty from the government. We just have to wake Americans up to their heritage, get them to take their country back, and stop letting other people run their lives for them.

Also, like I've already said, the more of a Nation of Riflemen we are, the less likely "the powers that be" are to make any kind of a move on our liberty in the first place. Think about it... if whoever is in charge of the government knew it would require unleashing the full might of the military on the civilian population and starting a bloody war in the middle of the heartland in order to force some law on us, they would be much less likely to do it. They would have to REALLY want to, and it would be a very hard choice; they may not have the public support to be able to pull it off, even if they would like to. However, an unarmed population can be deprived of its liberty on a whim. If the government wants to enslave them, what are they going to do about it? Probably nothing some cops in riot gear can't deal with.

That is the purpose of the second amendment, and why the founders wanted us to have a "well-regulated militia" (meaning a well-trained militia), not just a country of people who own guns but don't know how to use them.

And yes, I'll be helping to run the shoot this weekend. You should come check it out. Badlands Tactical has some awesome facilities.
 

MadDawg

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Yes the continuing fight in Iraq has morphed. but there are plenty of private armies fighting for narrow concerns. I think it is a bit unrealistic to try and keep the term militia as some governmental unit.

Hensh-
I have attended a few Appleseeds. I know what they are about, was a bit concerned what you were trying to say they do. I am always 125% behind maintaining our shooting heritage, but a bit leery when folks like M14 Fred speak of repelling the invasion of the blue hats.

Anyway I do hope to meet you this weekend, should i ask for the 'shoot boss'? I have heard Badlands has a great range complex, what part will you be using?
 

JWE

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I wouldn't label those we continue to fight in Iraq as militia. They do not fight in support of the civil government. This is not to say liberals are like insurgents, but these Iraqi insurgents are more like liberals than a militia. They can't stand it when they can't get their way, right or wrong; and any means are justified by their ends.

Woody

They're far from militia, yes they're organized, but I refuse to even associate them with the term militia when they try to fight hiding behind women and children.

The insurgents in Iraq are like woody mentioned, liberals, more like the far far left of the liberals with a huge religious motivation. They'd want nothing more to die for their cause and become martyrs for more to follow.
 

henschman

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Actually Oldgrunt ("RWVA Shooter" on this forum) is the official shoot boss this time, but I'll be there helping to run things as well. I'll be one of the guys in green hats. Just ask for Henschman... that's my RWVA nickname too.

We'll be on the 1000 yard silhouette range the whole time. We'll have the 25m range set up out there, and then we'll do some KD on Sunday afternoon.

Its funny what has happened with Fred over the years... you know he started Appleseed, right? It was before Appleseed that he wrote all that about being ready for the UN invasion and whatnot... most of that is from his columns in Shotgun News. Some of it is in his 'Guide to Becoming a Rifleman' too.

But something changed in him when he started putting on these marksmanship clinics that eventually led to the formation of Appleseed. He saw lots of everyday folks start to get excited about their history and heritage, and getting involved in promoting liberty, and it gave him hope that the situation with our country could be turned around peacefully if enough people woke up to those things.

I've met a lot of people at Appleseeds who were cynical and pessimistic about our country's future, like Fred was, but were given renewed hope by Appleseed.

Fred refers to those days as when he went to the "Dark Side."
 

MadDawg

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I know a bit about Appleseed and Fred, is why I mentioned him and his very creative Us vs the UN articles.

RWVA, now that sounds familiar. I beleive he was the shoot boss of all the Appleseeds I visited, I was getting confused thinking I must have met you.

I'll be with the CLEET crowd in the pistol bays this weekend, but I'll do my best to come by. I'll be the guy wearing a blackhat thats so old it looks grey.

Oh better cross your fingers, looks like rain. Always the way. Look forward to meeting you and any other OSA people attending.
 

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